$\"Macworld$ <\/p>\n

Image: Foundry<\/span>\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n<\/p><\/div>\n

In this episode, we take a look back at the major Apple hardware releases. What made an impression? What was a disappointment? Tune in and find out more!<\/p>\n

This is episode 964\u00a0with\u00a0 Michael Simon<\/a>,\u00a0 Jason Cross<\/a>,\u00a0 and\u00a0 Roman Loyola<\/a>.\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n

Watch episode 964 on YouTube<\/h2>\n
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\n<\/iframe>\n<\/p>\n<\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<h2 id=\"listen-to-episode-964-on-apple-podcasts\">Listen to episode 964 on Apple Podcasts<\/h2>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<div>\n<h2 id=\"listen-to-episode-964-on-spotify\">Listen to episode 964 on Spotify<\/h2>\n<figure><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<h2 id=\"get-info\">Get info<\/h2>\nClick on the links below for more info on what was discussed on the show.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/2393967\">iPhone 17 and Air superguide<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/1354114\">IPhone\u00a016e superguide<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/2303200\">M4 MacBook Air superguide<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/2552098\">M5 MacBook Pro superguide<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/2204696\">2025 Mac Studio superguide<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/2595313\">M3 iPad Air<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/2599594\">M5 iPad Pro<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/2950036\">Does Apple\u2019s Dynamic Power Adapter really charge your iPhone faster?\u00a0<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/673885\">AirPods Pro 3 superguide<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2 id=\"this-week-in-apple-history\">This Week in Apple History\u00a0<\/h2>\nOn\u00a0December 20, 1996, Apple\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/go.skimresources.com?id=111346X1569486&xs=1&url=https:\/\/www.cnet.com\/tech\/tech-industry\/apple-acquires-next-jobs\/&xcust=1-1-3011868-1-0-0-0-0&sref=https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3011868\/macworld-podcast-the-year-in-apple-hardware.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-subtag=\"1-1-3011868-1-0-0-0-0\" data-domain-name=\"cnet\">announced<\/a>\u00a0that it would\u00a0acquire\u00a0Next Software for\u00a0$400 million.\u00a0<\/p>\n<h2 id=\"macworld-mailbag\">Macworld Mailbag\u00a0<\/h2>\nOn a recent\u00a0episode\u00a0we talked about the Apple executive changes, and we broached the topic of the legacy of Apple CEO Tim Cook. People have plenty of thoughts on this.\u00a0<\/p>\n<blockquote>\nHe\u2019s already at a\u00a0pretty low\u00a0note with\u00a0ios\u00a026.\u00a0<\/p>\n<cite><a href=\"https:\/\/go.skimresources.com?id=111346X1569486&xs=1&url=https:\/\/www.tiktok.com\/@macworld.com\/video\/7582376645504388382&xcust=1-1-3011868-1-0-0-0-0&sref=https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3011868\/macworld-podcast-the-year-in-apple-hardware.html\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-subtag=\"1-1-3011868-1-0-0-0-0\" data-domain-name=\"tiktok\" target=\"_blank\">johnnyfive_75 on TikTok<\/a><\/cite><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<blockquote>\nReleasing the Vision Pro flop, fumbling Al, releasing a meh OS reskin, and capitulating & cozying to fascists.\u00a0That\u2019s\u00a0his legacy\u00a0<\/p>\n<cite><a href=\"https:\/\/go.skimresources.com?id=111346X1569486&xs=1&url=https:\/\/www.tiktok.com\/@macworld.com\/video\/7582376645504388382&xcust=1-1-3011868-1-0-0-0-0&sref=https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3011868\/macworld-podcast-the-year-in-apple-hardware.html\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-subtag=\"1-1-3011868-1-0-0-0-0\" data-domain-name=\"tiktok\" target=\"_blank\">pattiestpower on\u00a0TikTok<\/a> <\/cite><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<blockquote>\nTim Apple should have\u00a0been replaced\u00a0YEARS\u00a0AGO. He may have kept the profits coming short term, but long term he did so much damage to the brand.\u00a0<\/p>\n<cite><a href=\"https:\/\/go.skimresources.com?id=111346X1569486&xs=1&url=https:\/\/www.tiktok.com\/@macworld.com\/video\/7582376645504388382&xcust=1-1-3011868-1-0-0-0-0&sref=https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3011868\/macworld-podcast-the-year-in-apple-hardware.html\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-subtag=\"1-1-3011868-1-0-0-0-0\" data-domain-name=\"tiktok\" target=\"_blank\">chickenfriedsteak40 on TikTok <\/a><\/cite><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<blockquote>\nIf\u00a0you want to know what Tim Cook\u2019s legacy is \u2013\u00a0continued\u00a0growth and stability.\u00a0Nothing more.\u00a0<\/p>\n<cite><a href=\"https:\/\/go.skimresources.com?id=111346X1569486&xs=1&url=https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/reel\/1550391815998974&xcust=1-1-3011868-1-0-0-0-0&sref=https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3011868\/macworld-podcast-the-year-in-apple-hardware.html\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-subtag=\"1-1-3011868-1-0-0-0-0\" data-domain-name=\"facebook\" target=\"_blank\">Peter\u00a0Windleon\u00a0on FaceBook<\/a><\/cite><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<h2 id=\"subscribe-to-the-macworld-podcast\">Subscribe to the Macworld Podcast<\/h2>\nYou can subscribe to the Macworld Podcast\u2014or leave us a review!\u2014<a href=\"https:\/\/go.skimresources.com?id=111346X1569486&xs=1&url=https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/id563933198&xcust=1-1-3011868-1-0-0-0-0&sref=https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3011868\/macworld-podcast-the-year-in-apple-hardware.html\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-subtag=\"1-1-3011868-1-0-0-0-0\" data-domain-name=\"apple\" target=\"_blank\">right here in the Podcasts app<\/a>. The Macworld Podcast is also <a href=\"https:\/\/go.skimresources.com?id=111346X1569486&xs=1&url=https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/3uyZkE4tjbwNNrJCLsBUAM?si=OdOljEAYQvC_ewEsMfKzXA&xcust=1-1-3011868-1-0-0-0-0&sref=https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3011868\/macworld-podcast-the-year-in-apple-hardware.html\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-subtag=\"1-1-3011868-1-0-0-0-0\" data-domain-name=\"spotify\" target=\"_blank\">available on Spotify<\/a> and on the <a href=\"https:\/\/go.skimresources.com?id=111346X1569486&xs=1&url=https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@MacworldPodcast&xcust=1-1-3011868-1-0-0-0-0&sref=https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3011868\/macworld-podcast-the-year-in-apple-hardware.html\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-subtag=\"1-1-3011868-1-0-0-0-0\" data-domain-name=\"youtube\" target=\"_blank\">Macworld Podcast YouTube channel<\/a>.\u00a0 Or you can point your favorite podcast-savvy RSS reader at: https:\/\/feeds.megaphone.fm\/macworld<\/p>\nTo find previous episodes, visit <a href=\"https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/opinion\/podcast\">Macworld\u2019s podcast page<\/a> or our home on <a href=\"https:\/\/go.skimresources.com?id=111346X1569486&xs=1&url=https:\/\/cms.megaphone.fm\/channel\/macworld&xcust=1-1-3011868-1-0-0-0-0&sref=https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3011868\/macworld-podcast-the-year-in-apple-hardware.html\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-subtag=\"1-1-3011868-1-0-0-0-0\" data-domain-name=\"megaphone\" target=\"_blank\">MegaPhone<\/a>.<\/p>\n<div>\n<figure data-wp-context=\"{\"imageId\":\"69702cc0e4e60\"}\" data-wp-interactive=\"core\/image\"><a href=\"https:\/\/go.skimresources.com?id=111346X1569486&xs=1&url=https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/id563933198&xcust=1-1-3011868-1-0-0-0-0&sref=https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3011868\/macworld-podcast-the-year-in-apple-hardware.html\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-subtag=\"1-1-3011868-1-0-0-0-0\" data-domain-name=\"apple\" target=\"_blank\"><img decoding=\"async\" data-wp-class--hide=\"state.isContentHidden\" data-wp-class--show=\"state.isContentVisible\" data-wp-init=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on-async--click=\"actions.showLightbox\" data-wp-on-async--load=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on-async-window--resize=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" src=\"https:\/\/b2c-contenthub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/apple-podcasts-badge-standard.jpg?quality=50&strip=all&w=1200\" alt width=\"1200\" height=\"215\" loading=\"lazy\"><\/a><\/figure>\nApple<\/p>\n<\/div>\nBelow is an AI-generated, uncorrected transcript of the podcast. The timecodes do not correspond to the published recording. Also, the text has not been edited or corrected, so it will contain improper grammar, misspellings, and other errors.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\nRoman Loyola (00:00.548) while recording but\u2026<\/p>\nJason Cross (00:00.824) Let me make sure I\u2019ve got it. Okay, I\u2019m good.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (00:05.23) All right.<\/p>\nUnscripted, unfiltered, unafraid, welcome to the Macworld Podcast. My name is Michael Simon and I am joined for the last episode of the year by Jason Cross.<\/p>\nJason Cross (00:18.008) Good morning.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (00:19.284) And our producer, Roman Loyal.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (00:21.636) Ahoy there.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (00:23.694) hold on, Roman. Did I miss? Did I update this?<\/p>\nJason Cross (00:25.207) You<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (00:26.384) I was trying to get some energy up.<\/p>\nJason Cross (00:28.182) I know, hey.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (00:29.978) Hey, welcome to the podcast. Last one.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (00:33.706) Uh, so we just recorded one like 10 minutes ago and was like, it was like an hour and a half and now we have a second one, but we\u2019re pretending like it\u2019s the end of the year and we have lots of energy. This is episode number 964. That\u2019s right. Including the one we just recorded. All right. Episode number 964. And if you listened to last week\u2019s show, you know what this one is. We\u2019re going to talk about hardware, all the<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (00:36.752) That\u2019s I mean.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (00:48.452) Yes. That is correct. Yes.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:00.014) stuff Apple released on the hardware side last year, last year, last week we talked about software. Everything, yeah, software and services. So everything Apple, everything Apple released on the hardware side of what we like, what we didn\u2019t like, what it means, all that other stuff. Then we\u2019re going to have a year-end version of the worst thing that happened this week, this week in Apple history and our reader mailbag. We\u2019re going to zip through the show because the last one was like, was like three days long. So this was going to be quick.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:06.904) Software and Services.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:29.848) We\u2019re not going to spend much time on the new iPhone, Speaking of reader mailbag, which I just said before I interrupted myself, you can contact us through Blue Sky, Facebook, threads, search for Macworld, look for the Blue Mouse logo, send an email to podcast.macworld.com, comment under video, tell us what you think about what Apple did this year. Tell us what you want Apple to do next year, whatever you want. We will get, look at those and we\u2019ll get to them next year if\u2026<\/p>\nFirst show will be on January 7th, 8th. We don\u2019t have a show until January. Wow, we have like three or four weeks of no shows.<\/p>\nJason Cross (02:06.904) Ha<\/p>\nMichael Simon (02:08.846) okay. Roman, forget three minutes. Give me a minute and a half to talk about. so, this is our last show before, 2026. So, happy holidays, Merry Christmas, happy new year, happy Hanukkah, happy whatever you celebrate. real quick, we\u2019re off between Christmas and new years. Are you guys, doing anything fun?<\/p>\nEither of you know? Roman says no.<\/p>\nJason Cross (02:34.86) Nothing special this year. My wife and I usually travel for Christmas. We either go to her family or my family, both of which are a thousand, 2,000 miles from here. But this year we\u2019re staying here.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (02:39.832) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (02:45.186) Yeah. Where does, where does her, her family live? know you go to New Orleans. Is that her family or your family?<\/p>\nJason Cross (02:50.04) Kansas City, Kansas City, her, her mom and dad live in the middle of nowhere, Kansas, but her sisters, he has two sisters and they\u2019re both married and they both live in Kansas City and we stay with them and her parents come up. So Kansas City.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (02:56.056) Okay.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (03:04.654) Do you ever see a terrorist who to travel is Kelsey walking around? Roman, you said, no, you\u2019re not doing anything.<\/p>\nJason Cross (03:07.904) Yeah, all the time. They walk through the burbs of Kansas City like constantly.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (03:17.744) No, we had a big thing last year. So this year we\u2019re staying home. yeah. In the interest of keeping this short, no, nothing.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (03:25.518) Alright, well quiet. I, I\u2026<\/p>\nMichael Simon (03:30.506) Yeah, I don\u2019t do much either. We host Christmas. My parents and brother come up for a couple of days. And then my parents come back for New Year\u2019s and we spend New Year\u2019s Eve and New Year\u2019s Day. I hate like New Year\u2019s. I don\u2019t party or drink or anything. So my New Year\u2019s Eve is very quiet. I watch whatever the ball drop show that my parents want to watch is and that\u2019s about it. We don\u2019t do much.<\/p>\nJason Cross (03:57.624) We have a pretty chill New Year\u2019s as well. Usually, sometimes we can go over to our friend\u2019s house or something, but no, the days of huge big parties are behind us.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (04:06.862) Kinda, yeah. Like, we\u2019re all too old for that stuff. There was a time. It ain\u2019t now.<\/p>\nJason Cross (04:12.726) And it\u2019s not about staying up late because I\u2019m up past midnight every night. Like that\u2019s just, it\u2019s just my life.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (04:16.149) Sure.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (04:21.522) All good. That was pretty short, Roman, right? All right, so yeah, last show before the break, we\u2019re talking about Apple hardware. And a lot of, it\u2019s kind of like software was a bigger deal this year than the hardware was. Liquid glass, I think there wasn\u2019t like a ton of, so they released a lot of stuff. Basically everything but a new iMac, Mac mini maybe, iPad mini, the mini stuff.<\/p>\nJason Cross (04:25.496) You<\/p>\nMichael Simon (04:51.384) They didn\u2019t do. But so they updated everything, but there wasn\u2019t anything like that was like monumental. Like they didn\u2019t have like a groundbreaking new anything this year. Right? Let\u2019s not miss something.<\/p>\nJason Cross (05:02.052) I wouldn\u2019t say groundbreaking. I think the iPhone is in the middle of like a three, two or three year shakeup. just started this year and we\u2019ll get to that when we get to the iPhone stuff, but there\u2019s some significant shakeup starting with the iPhone that will continue next year and the year after. but yeah, there were a lot of chip and chip, products this year, you know,<\/p>\nMichael Simon (05:10.285) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (05:26.286) There were.<\/p>\nJason Cross (05:29.26) whether it\u2019s iPhones, iPads, Mac Studios, MacBook Pros, a lot of stuff was just like, well, if it got a new processor and the processor\u2019s great, but it didn\u2019t get fancy new displays or cameras or anything else.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (05:46.412) We got the three new generations. Roman, maybe I\u2019m wrong, but is this the first time we ever got? So we got the M3 Ultra in the Mac Studio. We got the M4. maybe we got that last year. we did. Forget it. My thing is wrong. Right. Right. But we already had the chip. Yeah. So we got the M3 Ultra, we got the M5 later this year.<\/p>\nJason Cross (05:56.151) Mm-hmm.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (06:03.504) It\u2019s confusing because the M4 MacBook Air becomes comes out, but the M4 comes out right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (06:11.65) Mm-hmm.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (06:16.142) The iPad Air has an M3, like there\u2019s a whole bunch of generations going on. The Mac Pro still has an M2 Ultra, which is just crazy. That\u2019s $6,000 and you\u2019re getting a chip from like three years ago. But yeah, there wasn\u2019t, Jason said like the iPhone aside, this was probably the most meaningfully updated year for the iPhone in a while.<\/p>\nJason Cross (06:36.536) Yes.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (06:43.192) But like Macs were like, okay, you know, the MacBook Air got the M4. Okay. I mean, it\u2019s great. You know, they got a hundred dollar price cut, was nice. Everything has 16 gigs of RAM now, which is nice. Like all that, you know, it\u2019s all good stuff. Like I\u2019m not saying Apple didn\u2019t give us interesting and, or not interesting, but it didn\u2019t give us like viable products. It\u2019s just like on the, on the exciting front. It kind of wasn\u2019t there this year, which is fine.<\/p>\nJason Cross (07:10.38) Yeah. And there\u2019s some, some stuff that was kind of rumored that not necessarily super exciting, but just didn\u2019t get, we never got our home pad mini. mean, home pod mini too. we never got the new air tags, you know, those, things were like rumored to drop right at the end of the year.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (07:14.413) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (07:18.38) Right. I\u2019m pied mini. Right? Right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (07:26.112) Apple TV 4K like that hasn\u2019t been updated in a couple of years. That was part of that.<\/p>\nJason Cross (07:29.538) Yep. I\u2019m not sure it needs to be, but you\u2019re right. It\u2019s part of that group of like, yeah, sure. Before the end of the year, they\u2019re going to drop these things. And to be fair, like they did this with the AirPods Max. They just slid into it. We all thought we weren\u2019t going to get it. Then like late December, they\u2019re like, guess what, you guys? And so it\u2019s possible that.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (07:35.693) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (07:46.488) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (07:50.882) That would be something if we got an air tag next week.<\/p>\nJason Cross (07:53.644) Yeah, that would be something, but weird.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (07:56.472) Well, actually it would be last week at this point. wait, wait, hold on. Roman, what are you posting this? So it would have been last week if we got it, but we recorded this on the 16th. I don\u2019t think Apple\u2019s ever released anything this late into December. I might be wrong.<\/p>\nJason Cross (07:58.776) We were in the future.<\/p>\nJason Cross (08:11.372) Just AirPods bags.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (08:13.282) That was when? was like the fifth or the eighth or something. I don\u2019t think it was this quite this late.<\/p>\nJason Cross (08:21.24) I\u2019m going to look up December 15th. It was the 15th. Yeah. wait. I announced on the eighth and then shipping on the 15th. So, so they, they, they had announced it by now. So, but that was also a new product. would announce air tags too. They would just be like, it would go up on the site with a splashy thing says like now longer range and yada yada.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (08:21.528) But it was in December. wow. So it was yesterday. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So that was late. Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (08:38.837) Right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (08:43.296) It seems strange that of all the products, AirTag, by all accounts, they\u2019re done. They\u2019re ready to go. There\u2019s a new model somewhere and they just haven\u2019t shipped it. don\u2019t know. I mean\u2026<\/p>\nJason Cross (08:57.878) And it\u2019s, it\u2019s the one that has the least. makes sense to wait for the HomePod mini because they\u2019ve got the big new Siri thing come in and maybe they\u2019re going to dump all the stuff that works on Siri. Like then, even if it\u2019s ready to go and it\u2019s be fine, they\u2019re going to, but the air tags have none of that. The air tags are just, it\u2019s just going to be like longer range, more tamper resistant speaker. Like it\u2019s not, I don\u2019t even know that they\u2019re going to give it a name.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (09:05.335) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (09:18.636) Right. It\u2019ll look the same. You\u2019ll still need a case to put them on a key chain. Right. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (09:24.854) Like they\u2019ll put parentheses second generation where they have to on a support document, but it\u2019ll just be like the new air tags and they\u2019ll just be air tags and you\u2019ll just buy your tags and they\u2019ll be better now. So yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (09:35.07) AirTag is, that\u2019s like the unsung hero of Apple\u2019s lineup. Like they\u2019re 20 bucks for the most part. You can get a pack of four for like 80 bucks on Amazon all the time. And they\u2019re really frigging good. like, so my son has a graphing calculator. He\u2019s in, he\u2019s in ninth grade math and you know, they\u2019re expensive. So I bought him a case. I popped an AirTag in there and he\u2019ll know if he forgets it when he goes to class. It\u2019s fantastic.<\/p>\nJason Cross (09:44.13) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (10:03.64) They\u2019re like, they\u2019re so good. It pops up on your phone. you you, you, you want, got, it\u2019s got gotten that notification a million times. Like all my keys are behind or my, you know, Apple stuff has a built-in. So like, you forget your iPhone somewhere, it\u2019ll tell you it\u2019s, it\u2019s good stuff. The air tag is, is fantastic. They should make it work with, maybe they do. They don\u2019t work with their Android, right? There\u2019s, there\u2019s no app for that. Like, like you need, you need a iPhone.<\/p>\nJason Cross (10:27.672) They don\u2019t, correct, there\u2019s no, they don\u2019t work properly with Android. have secure, they work together with Google on security stuff so that like if someone\u2019s got an error in Android, they\u2019ll still get that warning that an air tag\u2019s following them. Like, so if somebody plants an air tag on you and you\u2019ve got an Android phone, you\u2019ll still get warned. They have that, but you can\u2019t, there\u2019s no way to like track your own air tag or anything.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (10:36.44) Right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (10:44.014) The tracking stuff.<\/p>\nJason Cross (10:57.324) They did make it work with third party stuff, Find My, they opened Find My to third party stuff. And there\u2019s now all of these like great like cards you could put in a wallet, like card shaped things and stuff like that. Other form factors than the little fat disk. That\u2019s super helpful, right? And there are a lot of those out there now that are like 30 bucks or something. yeah, it\u2019s just as, and those are great. Those are killer.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (11:00.654) Fine by you.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (11:14.062) Right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (11:20.142) Mm-hmm.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (11:23.746) Yeah. So I don\u2019t know if we need a second gen, we didn\u2019t get one, but AirTag still, you know, like the value of Apple\u2019s lineup.<\/p>\nJason Cross (11:28.811) Yeah, I-<\/p>\nIt\u2019s supposed to do a handful of things that I\u2019m glad about like the precision finding, meaning the ultra wideband finding will have a longer range. That\u2019s fine. Whatever you get close enough with the Bluetooth and then it takes over. does need the speaker needs to be harder to disable and they are doing that. So if the rumors are true and then it needs better reporting about how much battery life is left and that\u2019s the other thing it\u2019s supposed to be doing. Like right now it kind of don\u2019t know.<\/p>\nIt\u2019s just it has battery and then it tells you it\u2019s dying and then you\u2019re like, but could you have warned me when I was at 20 %? Could I see the battery life level? They\u2019re supposed to address some of that. So that\u2019ll be huge. But yeah, these are nice little things.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (12:02.284) Right. It tells you when it. Yeah, right. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (12:17.762) Yeah, Roman, you, we, we completely derailed the show like immediately. Like this is supposed to be looking like we\u2019re, we, turned, started to do an air tag preview. This is what happens when we do two shows in a row. Like we\u2019re now, we\u2019re all off script here. all right. So let\u2019s look at what they did. So we got, we got three iPads that were iPad air with an three and that was it. iPad with an a 16 and that was it.<\/p>\nJason Cross (12:26.072) Yeah, instead of talk. It\u2019s well. But it\u2019s it\u2019s not a 2025 hardware, that\u2019s for sure. All right.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (12:27.492) Well, air tags are hardware. They just aren\u2019t this year\u2019s hardware.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (12:37.445) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (12:47.412) and the iPad Pro just recently with an M5 and basically that\u2019s it. Like they\u2019re fine. Prices didn\u2019t increase or anything. So, you know, it\u2019s all good, but there\u2019s not much in the way of like features other than the new processors. And, know, we\u2019ve been through this before. Like iPads don\u2019t annual processor updates. just, they just don\u2019t. The differences between an M2 and an M3 and an iPad Air is academic. Like you\u2019re never going to feel the difference in.<\/p>\nThat performance, I don\u2019t think.<\/p>\nJason Cross (13:20.342) Not for that product. No. I mean, the M5 was a surprisingly good jump from the M4 and it matters in the Mac. They updated the Vision Pro with it. they did that and they did a strap that also goes on the top of your head. They don\u2019t even call it anything else. It\u2019s just still the Vision Pro. It\u2019s not like Vision Pro 1.1.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (13:25.974) Yeah. Yeah. In the Mac. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (13:46.296) So yeah, a lot of chip and ship stuff. The chips are fine. The products are fine. I think all the excitement was in the iPhone this year and AirPods. AirPods Pro 3, mean, which was\u2026<\/p>\nMichael Simon (13:57.612) AirBuds Pro 3, but they were fine. We didn\u2019t get the new chip that we thought we were going to get in the AirBuds Pro. You know, the silicon tips are nice and stuff, but it wasn\u2019t really the update that we thought it was going to be. Yeah, right. It\u2019s okay. It was like everything else. was okay. Like there\u2019s nothing wrong with it. It\u2019s still 250 and they\u2019re better.<\/p>\nJason Cross (14:12.492) Yeah, foam infused silicone tips and true.<\/p>\nJason Cross (14:23.766) No, it\u2019s an improvement.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (14:27.256) but it\u2019s not the leap that we thought AirPods Pro 3 were gonna bring.<\/p>\nJason Cross (14:35.874) But it gets interesting when we start going through the iPhone. Okay, well we\u2019ll start.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (14:38.19) All right. So let\u2019s get to it. Cause that\u2019s it. Like that, that\u2019s, that\u2019s the, that\u2019s the big, the big event was the, there was only two events this year, WWDC and the iPhone event. So the iPhone event was like the big show.<\/p>\nJason Cross (14:43.18) Yeah, let\u2019s.<\/p>\nJason Cross (14:47.906) Well, so.<\/p>\nthat in the spring we got iPhone 16e right which was a big change they jumped they stopped they stopped doing SEs that they\u2019re only gonna release every two three whatever years they went to a numbered release that\u2019s the same as the current generation because 16 was a current generation at the time and presumably because they\u2019re going to do this every year right so we\u2019re gonna get a 17e and an 18e and we\u2019re gonna get every spring an e of the current number we assume<\/p>\nMichael Simon (14:52.782) right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (15:19.19) We should. I mean, we don\u2019t know yet because there hasn\u2019t been a second one, but we think so, yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (15:20.418) We should.<\/p>\nRight, right. That would be the point of doing this. It was a big improvement from the SE line, right? And it was the first one with their own modem. They introduced the C1, which turned out to be just fine, which is about the best thing you could say about Apple going in with a 5G modem because it\u2019s really hard to make one. And so for them to release one and kind of nobody noticed, except for people like us who like literally test it, like everybody else is just like, yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (15:37.538) Yeah. Which is what you want. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (15:52.728) It\u2019s a phone and it works. So they did that and it\u2019s fine. Nobody\u2019s going like, it\u2019s too slow. Oh, I\u2019m dropping calls. Big success for Apple. [iPhone] 16e we thought it was pretty good at the time. In retrospect now, I would never get one when the [iPhone] 17 is so good.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (16:14.85) That\u2019s well, that\u2019s part of it. So it\u2019s, it\u2019s The 16e is $599 right? Right. it has a notch, not to, not the dynamic Island. It has an OLED display. It\u2019s, what\u2019s the size? Six point one, six point one inches. and it has an A 17 chip. it\u2019s, it\u2019s, it\u2019s last year\u2019s internal stuff, but only one camera. And a couple of years ago, screen tech.<\/p>\nJason Cross (16:19.776) Right. Yep.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (16:44.782) has Face ID, like it\u2019s a massive improvement over the [iPhone] SE. It\u2019s also $200 more than the, or $180 more than the SE. And.<\/p>\nJason Cross (16:54.712) but it\u2019s still $200 cheaper than the cheapest regular iPhone, you know.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (16:57.55) That\u2019s right. But as Jason says, they unveiled the 17 and it got a ton of upgrades. the 16e is in a weird position.<\/p>\nJason Cross (17:04.631) Yeah, so.<\/p>\nJason Cross (17:08.438) Yeah. So skipping forward to September, they changed up the iPhone lineup quite considerably. There\u2019s no 17 plus and they replaced it with this iPhone air that has no number, which makes us all wonder what the heck is going to go on with it. yeah, which, which we can talk about that in a second, but the 17 got everything it has been missing for, for so many years. Like it got<\/p>\nMichael Simon (17:22.894) Right. Right. If everything, yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (17:32.3) Right. Like literally everything.<\/p>\nJason Cross (17:35.448) Right. It promotion. It got always on. It\u2019s got the dynamic island. It got a brighter screen. It\u2019s the a 19 is quite a bit better than the a 18 was longer battery life. And they introduced to all the iPhones. Right? Yeah. The selfie cam that they put on all the iPhone 17 like line and the iPhone air is this big 18 megapixel square pixel square sensor thing that does horizontal or vertical without turning your thing and<\/p>\nMichael Simon (17:47.768) Better selfie cam, better cameras, know?<\/p>\nJason Cross (18:04.312) stabilization. It\u2019s like an actual and the quality that it shoots is better. Like it\u2019s a finally a big upgrade to the selfie cam in iPhones this year. So all of that in the 799 model, I would not recommend the 599 model to anyone who just doesn\u2019t really can\u2019t afford the iPhone 17. I would tell anybody it\u2019s well worth $200.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (18:11.662) Great.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (18:26.22) Yeah, I don\u2019t disagree.<\/p>\nYeah, if it was $499, I think so. Yeah. But like Apple is prone to do, the first generation, priced a little. So they did this with the iPad a couple of years ago. If you remember, it came out, it was $449. And we were like, it\u2019s $50 too much. It\u2019s really good and blah, But it\u2019s like $449, the Air is only $599. And then they cut the price by a hundred bucks and it\u2019s great.<\/p>\nJason Cross (18:33.933) yeah. Now you\u2019re in a whole other rage. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (18:56.439) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (18:59.566) So if they come out in March and cut the price of the 17E to 499, all of a sudden it\u2019s a great phone again.<\/p>\nJason Cross (19:10.878) Or if it\u2019s still 599, but they do some of these other improvements, like it\u2019s got a better display, dynamic islands, if they do some of these other things, it\u2019ll probably have the selfie cam, but I don\u2019t expect it\u2019ll have any of the other stuff yet.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (19:20.28) Sure.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (19:25.378) I think it\u2019ll still have a camera instead of two.<\/p>\nJason Cross (19:28.79) Yeah, one camera. It\u2019ll have.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (19:30.06) Yeah, I don\u2019t think it\u2019s going to get promotion. I\u2019d be very surprised. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (19:34.434) Probably no promotion, probably no always on, probably no, it probably will have the new selfie cam.<\/p>\nActually, and maybe probably the new selfie cam in Dynamic Island, because I don\u2019t think the new selfie cams, that whole module fits up in that place.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (19:43.881) I think so. I think it probably will.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (19:53.038) Yeah. Yeah. We\u2019ve heard rumors that it\u2019s going to get the dynamic island, but so the, the, the, the 16 E was something that we were, we had heard about for a long time. The SC was on the market for three years or three years. So like we were waiting for it and we got it and it\u2019s everything we wanted, except the price is just a little bit too high. 599 is just a little bit, a little bit too high. And you know, right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (20:11.085) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (20:14.648) Right. didn\u2019t seem that bad then, but then the 17 came out and the value on the 17. Also, they doubled the storage to 256 on the 17. They did everything and they kept it at 799 and it\u2019s the runaway hit of the year. It\u2019s like the best iPhone in a long time. And then Pro and Pro Max, which are as expected. mean, it\u2019s a pro version of the chip. It\u2019s the better cameras. Other than that, it\u2019s,<\/p>\nMichael Simon (20:22.306) Yeah, yeah, everything, right?<\/p>\nRight. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (20:38.882) I do.<\/p>\nJason Cross (20:42.764) It\u2019s the better cameras, it\u2019s the pro version of the chip.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (20:43.34) It\u2019s a somewhat new design with that thing. The little thing below the cab or whatever you call it.<\/p>\nJason Cross (20:50.168) There\u2019s a little area in the the back. the the the camera bump is now wide. It\u2019s like all the width. The plateau.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (20:55.15) The, the right, the big camera buns and then the smaller. Yeah. Right. And then the smaller thing below it. It\u2019s, it\u2019s all right. I don\u2019t Roman has the, has the pro. are you, well, Jason, you do too, but Roman, what do you think of the, you, oh, you have the, right. You have the air and the other one, Roman, what do you think of the, uh, like the design now that you\u2019ve had it for a couple of months.<\/p>\nJason Cross (21:07.809) I don\u2019t.<\/p>\nJason Cross (21:12.011) of the air in the rig.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (21:19.888) The design\u2019s fine. I\u2019m not a big fan of the giant plateau, but I think it is.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (21:24.736) Okay. You\u2019d rather have a square one in the corner like I did before.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (21:30.48) I don\u2019t know what I rather have because I don\u2019t like the square either. I just feel like there\u2019s a design hurdle that can\u2019t be overcome there. The plateau is kind of better because when you put your phone down, it\u2019s, you know, at least it\u2019s on an even or not a, yeah, it doesn\u2019t wobble. So I like that better, but I still don\u2019t like it overall. But in general, the design, you know,<\/p>\nMichael Simon (21:33.006) Okay.<\/p>\nJason Cross (21:36.28) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (21:40.652) Yeah, I agree.<\/p>\nJason Cross (21:50.2) It doesn\u2019t wobble quite so much.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (21:50.2) some way. It was a little bit.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (21:58.832) I like the orange and everything.<\/p>\nJason Cross (22:01.794) yeah. Cosmic orange was a big hit. and, and Roman mentioned this back when we had our iPhone show, like how much he, I mean, the cameras are great. The battery life is amazing. Like it\u2019s, it\u2019s, that\u2019s what pros always were. Right. So the big, the big improvement was in the 17 and then the air was a big change this year. We, we, it\u2019s been kind of panned for being too expensive with too many compromises.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (22:02.157) Yeah.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (22:11.63) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (22:31.288) But it\u2019s the first time they really did something new with the iPhone in like five or six years. Like an iPhone 16 and an iPhone 12 look pretty much the same.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (22:36.108) It\u2019s been a while, yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (22:42.102) And even like the mini and the plus, we\u2019re just smaller and larger versions of the variations on a beam, if you will.<\/p>\nJason Cross (22:47.66) Right. Yeah. To have an iPhone where they said, like, it really pushed the thinness, like, super far, and then they totally changed the frame, and it\u2019s weirdly super strong. Like, they made this thin thing, and it\u2019s the strongest iPhone they make.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (23:07.054) Which they, had to do it because people were like already saying that it was going to, Oh, there\u2019s no way that this thing\u2019s not going to bend. So I was like, well, screw you. We\u2019re going to make it so you cannot bend it no matter what you do. Right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (23:11.959) Right.<\/p>\nRight. Right. It\u2019s harder to bend than the regular iPhones. it\u2019s, you know, but it\u2019s a thousand bucks. It only has one camera. The battery life\u2019s worse. It has the, it has the a 19 pro, but of a version of it, that\u2019s no faster than the regular eight 19. Like it doesn\u2019t really, why\u2019d they do that? Like, I don\u2019t know. so it would be a great,<\/p>\nMichael Simon (23:36.109) Mm-hmm.<\/p>\nJason Cross (23:42.84) $800 phone. It would be great if you were choosing between Oh, do I want a second camera and it\u2019s fatter and it has longer battery life or do I want to give up those things to have it be skinnier? If that was the choice, it would be amazing. But it\u2019s that and it\u2019s $200 more. And so that was Oh, I know you love it.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (23:58.774) I\u2019ve got on record. So I have the air. Yeah. I bought it. Like I happily like I didn\u2019t, it\u2019s not a review unit. I paid the thousand bucks for it. Yeah. I love it. And it\u2019s one of those things where if that\u2019s what you\u2019re looking for in a phone, like I pick up my son\u2019s 17 or I think my wife has, I think it\u2019s 16 pro and it\u2019s like, I it\u2019s so thick and it\u2019s so cumbersome.<\/p>\nJason Cross (24:28.312) the pro for sure. The pro is even more. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (24:28.962) And it sounds ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah. Like it sounds absurd because it\u2019s like, well, who cares? We\u2019ve been saying that for years. Who cares how thin it is? I\u2019m telling you right now, man, it matters. Like the way I\u2019m able to hold it. And part of it is because it\u2019s also a little bit smaller than the, than the, than the pro. It\u2019s like, kind of like, has that like in between size screen. It\u2019s six, six and a half. Right. The max. Yeah. Right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (24:50.486) It\u2019s smaller than the Max. It\u2019s bigger than the Pro and the regular, and it\u2019s smaller than Max. That is the Goldilocks size. I love the size of it, because I find the Pro Max to be too big.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (24:59.862) Yeah. And they, they positioned the camera bump or the plateau at the top where like it doesn\u2019t ever hit your hand. So it feels like you\u2019re using an extremely thin phone and like the way I\u2019m able to use it with, with one hand, the way I\u2019m able to hold it without it. Like, you know, I had the pro, I had the plus the plus was kind of cumbersome and the pro before that, like it was, it was heavy. So like, it\u2019s kind of like hits all the marks for me.<\/p>\nI would buy it again in a second for a thousand bucks.<\/p>\nJason Cross (25:32.052) I went, I had, I had the review unit and I used it for until last week. I used, I stuck with it until last week. Last week, I moved everything over to a regular iPhone 17. And every day, I love it more. literally every single day, I\u2019m like, I\u2019m so glad I can take a photo up close to this little piece of text I\u2019m trying to take a photo of.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (25:47.064) Mm-hmm.<\/p>\nGood.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (25:57.89) Right. That\u2019s the one thing I miss is the macro stuff.<\/p>\nJason Cross (26:01.848) It\u2019s just as light. It\u2019s just as one handle and that\u2019s partly because it\u2019s smaller. And I do love the slightly larger size of the Air more, but everything else about the regular iPhone 17, now that it has promotion and always on and the brighter screen and all the things, like every single day, I\u2019m just like, if these were the same price, I would still choose this one. And I would definitely not pay $200 more for the Air.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (26:07.126) A little bit.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (26:28.854) Right. Would you pay $200 for it? like if that was nine, eight 99 and the air was seven 99, let\u2019s just say I\u2019m like an alternate universe. Would you still, would you still pay? Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (26:36.136) if it was swapped, would I pay more for this? That\u2019s a good question. That\u2019s a good question. It\u2019d be an interesting choice if they were the same price. I don\u2019t know that I\u2019d pay more for the regular iPhone 17. Yeah, I don\u2019t know. That\u2019s a tough one. But it\u2019s got the sound is better. I watch a video and I\u2019m like, right. It\u2019s supposed not supposed to sound like that.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (26:56.746) Yeah, I\u2019ll give you that too. I didn\u2019t think when people were complaining about the lack of a stereo speaker, like I literally said, like, cares? It\u2019s a phone. No, it actually does matter. the air, the three things that do, I won\u2019t say bug me, but they do, I do notice on the air is the stereo speaker, the lack of a second lens, particularly for macro photography. And I do sometimes have to charge it.<\/p>\nJason Cross (27:10.604) Yeah, you hear it every time.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (27:27.308) like at some point during the day, like a lot of the times, like if I use it for anything other than like a normal day, I\u2019m going to have to plug it in. And it\u2019s not a huge deal. Like I have them in my car. I got one on my desk. They\u2019re like, they plugs all over the place, but I do have to do it. Whereas I\u2019m sure Jason, don\u2019t.<\/p>\nJason Cross (27:42.626) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (27:47.458) After not on the regular 17, I haven\u2019t even looked at a charger. It\u2019s funny how long the battery life lasts. I\u2019m so used to using the pros and the larger phones because those were my daily drivers for a while. So going back to the small phone, it\u2019s been a couple of years and they\u2019ve improved the battery life a lot in the last couple of years. so, yeah, don\u2019t even get\u2026<\/p>\nMichael Simon (27:52.718) You<\/p>\nMichael Simon (28:08.43) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (28:14.07) I\u2019m one those people who when I get to like 25 % I\u2019m like, my phone\u2019s almost dead. yeah, and I\u2019m running and I don\u2019t even get to that. The air I never, I never got to that point where every day I or like I had to charge it in the afternoon, like I, but it was right there. At the end of the day, it was always like right about to die. And I sat and I would look at it going like, well, in a year, this is not going to make it through the day. Like when this thing gets<\/p>\nMichael Simon (28:17.923) Hahaha.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (28:24.781) Okay.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (28:39.852) Well, yeah, there\u2019s that too. right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (28:41.462) When this battery degrades 5%, I will be charging this thing every single day, even when I just doom scroll on social media all day like this.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (28:49.838) So mine\u2019s at 63 % right now, which is pretty good. So it\u2019s 3.30 where I am. But I also have been recording this damn podcast for four hours. So I haven\u2019t touched it since like 11 o\u2019clock. So let me look at my, assuming I have, it\u2019s a hundred percent. Jeez, it better be. I\u2019m just curious to see the battery health. Like it\u2019s gotta be, right?<\/p>\nJason Cross (28:54.85) That\u2019s pretty good.<\/p>\nHahaha<\/p>\nJason Cross (29:14.42) if it says anything, if it was, yeah, would be weird.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (29:19.662) Yeah, yeah, it\u2019s 100. I was just curious to see if it degraded at all. Yeah, I probably won\u2019t have it long enough because I do upgrade every year. So I\u2019ll trade it in and they\u2019ll give me $600 or whatever. But I love it. And I don\u2019t care if I\u2019m the only one who does.<\/p>\nJason Cross (29:29.846) Yeah, every year we\u2019re getting a new one.<\/p>\nJason Cross (29:39.8) What\u2019s interesting to me about the iPhone shakeup is that this is the start of about a three year process where they finally after it\u2019s got to be six or seven years now really change the iPhone lineup. instead of small, big, probably we get, we\u2019ve got this air, we\u2019ll probably get an air to next year. We\u2019re not going to get an iPhone 18 next year. That\u2019s going to get bumped into the spring of 2027. We\u2019re going to get the folding iPhone.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (29:46.958) Great.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (29:54.018) That\u2019s what they\u2019re saying, yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (30:08.586) Later in 2027, where we get this 20th anniversary iPhone that\u2019s all glass, it\u2019s all the way to the edge and like the, the dynamic islands practically gone, or maybe it is gone. Like there, there are big changes to not just what the lineup is, but when they release things and everything. And it\u2019s taking, it\u2019s going to take them from iPhone air to late 2027 to get through that. But we\u2019ve sort of kicked off this.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (30:24.899) Mm-hmm.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (30:28.749) Right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (30:37.752) evolution of iPhone. That\u2019s kind of cool to me because for year after year, it\u2019s been like, well, the chips faster, the battery lasts longer, the camera\u2019s better. And that\u2019s what you get. There\u2019s been all these other little things like faster wireless charging or what I put like the an iPhone at 11 and an iPhone 16 are the same.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (30:48.472) Right. Yeah, I mean.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (30:57.442) Yeah, essentially, yeah. This could be the last year where we get four models in the fall. They\u2019re saying next year, just the pro and maybe the pro, but maybe the error, you know, like we\u2019re not totally sure, but it\u2019s definitely going to look different next year.<\/p>\nJason Cross (31:04.61) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (31:11.734) Yeah, it\u2019s going to look different. It could be four because it would be the second air, which I think going to call it air to air second generation. What are you going to do? But like an updated air.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (31:19.5) Yeah, that\u2019s right. And maybe nothing, if it\u2019s selling as poorly as people say, maybe they just scrap it and they say, you know what, it\u2019s just not, it\u2019s not worth it to us. We\u2019ll just sell this one for another year. If anybody wants it, they\u2019ll buy it. We\u2019ll cut the price by a hundred bucks and see if anyone buys it.<\/p>\nJason Cross (31:26.956) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (31:36.674) But if they can improve the battery life a little and add a second camera, which is also rumors, then maybe it\u2019s great to get, I don\u2019t know. So Air, Pro, Pro Max, and the folding phone. So four, but four very different phones, right, than what we\u2019re used to. And then two phones in the spring, know, the whole line-up\u2019s getting shaken up. It\u2019s pretty neat. And it started this year, yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (31:40.462) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (31:50.87) Sure. Yeah. Yep.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (32:00.354) Yeah. Roman on the Mac front. Is there anything like? I don\u2019t know. I don\u2019t know what my question is, but I\u2019m thrown it to you.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (32:13.346) It\u2019s been pretty, well, I think that\u2019s indicative of the year that the Mac had. It was pretty quiet. I mean, the only real noise was that the M3 Ultra came out. That kind of surprised everyone because it came out at the same time as the M4 Max. they decided to make the Mac Studio high-end, the M3 Ultra, not an M4 Ultra. So that kind of threw everyone off. But you know, the MacBooks,<\/p>\nJason Cross (32:14.066) Ha ha ha<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (32:43.152) We only got one new MacBook Pro this year, the M4. We got the M4 or M5 and then the M4 MacBook Air back in March, I think. Yeah. That was basically it. It\u2019s been pretty quiet.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (32:46.413) Mm-hmm.<\/p>\nM5. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (32:50.646) We got the M5, sorry.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (32:55.212) Yep.<\/p>\nJason Cross (33:01.112) there was that rumor about them making a sort of purpose-built, inexpensive MacBook that at first was rumored to come by the end of the year, but then that rumor kind of said, it\u2019s going to be early next year. That\u2019s really the most exciting thing going on in Mac land right now is that like, it\u2019s not just going to be a MacBook Air that they sell cheaper. Like a cut down Mac would air. It\u2019s going to have a, its own shell, its own body, you know, and it\u2019s going to be made to be cheaper and it\u2019s going to have an A series processor.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (33:07.285) Right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (33:17.059) Yeah.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (33:17.828) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (33:29.804) Man, all that\u2019s very exciting and it missed the window for 2025.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (33:35.458) Right. Yeah, we didn\u2019t hear any like credible reports in the sense that like, well, Mark Gurman is the one that is most, I guess, reliable as far as that stuff goes. But there were reports that said like, maybe it\u2019s coming this year. I\u2019m not convinced we\u2019re getting it at all. We\u2019ll see. Like, I hope so. I really do hope so. But it\u2019s just all\u2026<\/p>\nJason Cross (33:54.138) okay.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (33:59.184) Save that for the next podcast.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (34:00.984) Yeah, you\u2019re right. We keep veering into 2026 territory. Yes, I know. Particularly when I get like, as we started, like it wasn\u2019t really an exciting hardware year. What\u2019s your favorite Mac of the year, Roman? Do you have?<\/p>\nJason Cross (34:01.321) Yeah, yep.<\/p>\nnext year. It\u2019s hard not to look ahead and be excited about what\u2019s coming.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (34:09.582) Right, right, because this year was kind of quiet.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (34:19.28) The ones I tested, well, I\u2019ve been using the M5 MacBook Pro. It\u2019s a nice machine. The speed\u2019s fast. The one thing that I think you guys are kind of sliding is the 40 watt dynamic power adapter with 60 watt max.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (34:20.298) Of the ones you tested I guess.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (34:37.582) How did I know you were gonna throw a curveball there?<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (34:40.272) Well, that\u2019s how quiet it has been in terms of hardware.<\/p>\nJason Cross (34:41.688) That\u2019s true, it\u2019s a game changer.<\/p>\nJason Cross (34:48.044) Yeah. I mean, yep.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (34:49.326) Uh, Jason, do you say that plug in it\u2019s it kind of doesn\u2019t really do anything. Just a plug.<\/p>\nJason Cross (34:54.936) It\u2019s basically a 60 watt power adapter that really only guarantees that you\u2019ll get 40. It will give you 60 until it gets too hot or the device. Every device is dynamic. All the plugs will sync to the device. So the device is like, can\u2019t take it this much wattage and they\u2019ll step it down. It gets really technical like they use a different thing that<\/p>\nMichael Simon (34:58.636) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (35:07.426) But don\u2019t all plugs do that?<\/p>\nkinda.<\/p>\nJason Cross (35:24.17) steps down in finer increments and more frequently and all that other stuff. But also if the plug itself gets too hot, it\u2019ll step down to 40. That\u2019s why they call it 40 with 60 watt max. But it\u2019ll stay at 60 watts for at least 15 minutes. And usually whatever you\u2019re charging will step down the wattage before that anyway. It\u2019ll use lower voltage by then. So it\u2019s basically a 60 watt power.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (35:51.832) Right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (35:54.008) plug. It\u2019s it\u2019s it\u2019s fine. It\u2019s great little tight. It\u2019s very compact. It\u2019s cool. But I kind of still love the little dual charger that Apple makes. And a million a million other companies make these little dual chargers but<\/p>\nMichael Simon (36:05.366) Yeah, that\u2019s the best one.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (36:09.58) Yeah. The 35, it\u2019s only 35 Watts. right? 45 Watts. The dual one. Yeah. think it\u2019s 35. But yeah, it\u2019s, it\u2019s, it\u2019s really perfect for like an iPad and iPhone and a Mac book air or something. It\u2019s great. Apple watch. Did we talk about Apple watch yet? Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (36:14.944) What? Apple dual one? Yeah, something like $235.40.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (36:18.724) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (36:22.786) Yeah. There\u2019s the I was gonna say it\u2019s been such a slow year. We just skipped over Apple Watch because Apple Watch series 11 is the same thing as the series 10. Like what\u2019s different? Like and then Ultra three, you know, these were the states you got space black, right? That was it. That was it. All right. You\u2019re right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (36:30.786) Meh.<\/p>\nBasically,<\/p>\nMichael Simon (36:43.982) Not even. Like I think they had that last year.<\/p>\nThe Ultra 3 got satellite networking, which, you know, okay, it\u2019s good, I guess, and it got better battery life. It has like 40 something hours of battery now. But the Black Titanium was, I think that that was the two, the update for the two.<\/p>\nJason Cross (36:53.665) Right.<\/p>\nYeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (37:09.312) You\u2019re right, I think that was an update for the two.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (37:11.234) But yeah, like as Jason said, nothing, I mean, they\u2019re good. The Apple watches are great. Like we do this a lot when we talk about the Apple watch. And I don\u2019t know what Apple could really do to make it like radically different or better. I\u2019ll tell you what\u2019s impressive is that we\u2019re 12 generations in and the bands still work on every model. Like that\u2019s cool.<\/p>\nJason Cross (37:20.056) Yeah, skip a year.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (37:37.986) But the watch is great. Like, there\u2019s not a ton that could change.<\/p>\nJason Cross (37:38.136) I feel like that\u2019s.<\/p>\nJason Cross (37:42.04) I feel like that\u2019s what they\u2019d have to do to make it an interesting change is change the shape incompatible bands like make a round one and the bands with a different set of bands and you\u2019re going to keep them for 10 years this other band design or something like that. You can make bands that are smarter. They have like some communication when you link them in but then you have to that\u2019s tricky to do with the water resistance and stuff but like you know there\u2019s some stuff that potentially could be done but<\/p>\nMichael Simon (38:06.125) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (38:12.214) I mean, the one thing that everybody wants is multi day battery life just like, let the let the battery last for four days like<\/p>\nMichael Simon (38:16.674) Yeah. And they\u2019re close. The Ultra, the Ultra can do multi-day, but it\u2019s big. And the Series 11 now they got up to, they rated for 24 hours. So it\u2019s at least a full day. And depending on your use, so you can probably get it to most of a second day. But yeah, it\u2019s going to take some battery, something breakthrough, efficiency chip breakthrough to really get to like.<\/p>\nJason Cross (38:22.583) Yeah, it\u2019s.<\/p>\nJason Cross (38:42.23) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (38:44.482) Like realistically, you need it to last like three days. So you can take it out on a Friday, come back Sunday night and not have to worry about it.<\/p>\nJason Cross (38:51.244) Yeah, if you go on an overnight trip and you forgot your watch charger, it\u2019s going to be fine. Like that\u2019s what you want. yeah, display tech, the display uses a lot. The chip uses a lot. They\u2019re getting there on the chip. can just, they can just stop making it faster. Just use all these new chip manufacturing technologies to make it.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (38:54.444) Right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (38:57.973) Exactly.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (39:04.844) Yeah, of course.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (39:11.758) Yeah, the chip this year\u2019s chip based on, actually Apple said it itself. Like it\u2019s the same as last year. Usually they give it a new name, but it\u2019s the same chip this year. They actually said, know what? It\u2019s still the S10. We\u2019re not going to lie to you. It\u2019s the same chip. they, um, the, we we did get a new se, se three, which is really good. It got an always on display, like the iPhone 17. That was like the theme of the year, uh, adding things that were missing.<\/p>\nJason Cross (39:19.416) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (39:26.22) You<\/p>\nMichael Simon (39:39.406) So it gave you got the always on display that you didn\u2019t have. Um, it has 5g now it has the S 10 chip and for 250 bucks and sometimes 200 on Amazon, it\u2019s a really, really good entry level or maybe not even entry level. It\u2019s just a really good smartwatch for that price for any price. Yeah, it\u2019s good. Even if you pay 250 for it, it\u2019s excellent.<\/p>\nJason Cross (39:56.557) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (40:00.138) Like it\u2019s missing the EKG or ECG and blood oxygen, right? Is that it? Essentially, like that\u2019s the main. So yeah, I get an SE for most people. But it was a slow year for that. So it was kind of slow year for Apple hardware in the sense that we\u2019ve got a lot of stuff.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (40:05.954) Yes. Yeah. Those two things.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (40:14.988) Yeah, for sure.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (40:23.626) It was, we got a lot of stuff, but I was going through it, preparing for the show and I was like, like there\u2019s nothing like.<\/p>\nwe could hold up and say, we got this thing. Like last year we got Vision Pro, or the year before we got, I don\u2019t know, something. But it was quiet.<\/p>\nJason Cross (40:35.392) outside of the\u2026<\/p>\nJason Cross (40:42.296) Outside of the interesting iPhone developments, it was a very Chip It and Ship It kind of year. And then I think that is because they had plans for things that were very reliant on new Siri. And when they decided to punt on new Siri and it wasn\u2019t even going to make it in the fall, everything was there\u2019s a lot of stuff that\u2019s almost ready to go. You know, and it\u2019s all very new Siri dependent.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (41:08.366) Right. Yeah, well, our next show will be right when the new year happens and we\u2019ll talk about 2026. yet next year could be, and we say this a lot, but this one, like maybe, like it looks like there\u2019s gonna be a ton of new stuff, like new, new stuff, not just like a M5 MacBook Air.<\/p>\nJason Cross (41:18.648) We say this a lot.<\/p>\nJason Cross (41:23.168) I mean, we look.<\/p>\nWe literally said at the start of this year, this year is going to be big because there\u2019s the new Siri and there\u2019s all this home stuff that\u2019s going to work on the new Siri. And then it got delayed. So, you never know. But yeah, there\u2019s a lot of stuff coming. There\u2019s a lot of stuff right now kind of like pegged for next year. That\u2019s very interesting.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (41:29.422) Probably.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (41:34.05) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (41:38.988) Right, you never know.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (41:47.136) Yeah. All right. Good. I\u2019m going to stop right there because that was a good little wrap up because we\u2019re to talk for another 15 minutes. Otherwise. All right. Worst thing that happened this year. I don\u2019t think we have any like parameters here, but you know, apple related, I guess.<\/p>\nJason Cross (41:51.831) You<\/p>\nJason Cross (42:04.856) yeah, we normally do like the worst thing that happened this week. Well, not normally when we do this segment. And since it\u2019s the year end wrap up, we\u2019re going to go for the whole year. And, I want to hear what Romans is Roman. was the worst thing this year? Is it that, is it that K popped?<\/p>\nMichael Simon (42:07.458) Right. We do it, yeah.<\/p>\nYeah.<\/p>\nYeah. All right. Roman, you start. Is it going to be K-pop again? Was it so bad it got both shows?<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (42:21.904) Yeah, I said mine last week. well, I think it\u2019s pretty obvious. It\u2019s the fact that Apple didn\u2019t really make any progress in AI this year, because it helped. And like Jason just said, it\u2019s kind of like it\u2019s holding everything else back.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (42:38.668) Yeah, literally zero progress. We\u2019re exactly where we were this time last year with Apple intelligence.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (42:40.367) Yeah.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (42:43.802) Yeah. We\u2019ve gone over it a hundred times before, so I don\u2019t need to dive in deep in on that.<\/p>\nJason Cross (42:46.252) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (42:49.26) We have. But no, it\u2019s important to keep bringing it up because it is. For one, it\u2019s for a company of Apple\u2019s size and stature, it\u2019s notable. But it\u2019s also like the entire world, Google, Samsung, OpenAI, like X has Grok, like AIs everywhere, except really on your iPhone.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (43:02.864) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (43:09.64) I, that was my worst thing was sort of the, the, the sort of iOS 18.4 debacle because they announced these new things and it really wasn\u2019t, it wasn\u2019t that they ever promised Siri was going to be a smart chat bot like chat GPT and Gemini and stuff were, but they announced these other features that sounded really amazing. Like it would build personal context about you so that it could give you understand what you do all the<\/p>\nMichael Simon (43:31.459) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (43:37.484) day and give you answers that related to you. It would be able to understand what\u2019s on your screen. So you would just be using your phone and looking at it and ask it something and it would understand, this is what\u2019s on the screen. They\u2019re talking about this. Right. And then the third was that we\u2019re going to have this massive app intents for developer, like all these developer hooks so that companies can build apps where Siri could do stuff within the apps in the background for you, like work within other apps.<\/p>\nit very limited how it does it now I can queue up songs and your Spotify and stuff, but it can\u2019t can\u2019t do much more. And it and it\u2019s not only like you said, they did ads and stuff. And then and then like March rolled around and everybody\u2019s like, where\u2019s the beta? Where is it? Where\u2019s this thing? And Apple basically had to admit, like you said, officially, but not like<\/p>\nMichael Simon (44:21.08) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (44:34.168) press releases and stuff. did it like interviews and everything that like, it\u2019s not going to happen. We couldn\u2019t make it work. It\u2019s basically made Siri have two brains working at the same time that weren\u2019t working. We\u2019re going all the way back and we\u2019re building one Siri based on a new large language model. And we later found out that they\u2019re working with outside companies and they did a bake off with all the anthropic Google and all this other stuff. And we\u2019re, finally going to hopefully get it this next spring. But Roman said it that<\/p>\nthat put a delay on all kinds of products and stuff that that Apple was supposedly working on. And we\u2019ve seen hints in the code and all this other stuff for all these like smart home products and this new home hub and all this other stuff. And it all got delayed by at least a year. And an Apple was already way behind everyone. So woof.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (45:07.426) Yep.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (45:29.784) To play devil\u2019s advocate slightly, had they shipped Siri and any of these new products and it didn\u2019t work, that would have been far worse. So at least they had the foresight to say, all right, we can\u2019t, this is not good enough because I don\u2019t think they recovered from that. If they do this and maybe the home pad comes with it and they have this whole push for look how great Siri is and it\u2019s not, I think that\u2019s worse.<\/p>\nJason Cross (45:38.2) yeah. True.<\/p>\nJason Cross (45:56.984) It definitely cannot be another Apple Maps situation, right? So yeah, hoping it gets there, hoping they show everybody, like we want it to be good.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (46:01.24) Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (46:08.844) Yeah. Yeah. And in the meantime, chat GPT is better and Gemini is better and everyone is getting better while we\u2019re waiting for Siri. I mean, we\u2019ll see Apple has to know. Like everybody\u2019s watching them. They\u2019re not stupid. Tim Cook\u2019s not stupid. So, it got about three months to polish this thing. It looks like March, April, and we\u2019ll see. We\u2019ll see.<\/p>\nAll right. My worst thing is completely different than all that stuff. Um, I\u2019m going to pick the vision pro because so the vision pro came out a year and a half or is announced a year and a half ago. Uh, no, was actually, no, that was two and a half years ago. Yeah. Uh, came out last February, had a whole type thing, you know, like, listen, it\u2019s a new Apple product. was 3,500 bucks and they, they had a demo thing in the stores and they invited you to come try it.<\/p>\nJason Cross (46:52.344) Do it. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (47:05.878) I don\u2019t know how many they sold, but I assume that many. then like nothing, like they kind of removed them from stores for the most part. They didn\u2019t really promote it. They didn\u2019t really do much with it. then this, so September or October, they released the de facto second generation model that has a faster chip and a better head strap, which you can also buy separately. So it did nothing to it at all. The M5, there\u2019s no one who<\/p>\nwas not gonna buy a Vision Pro. Didn\u2019t say, like the reason why I\u2019m not buying it is because the chip is too slow. And the headstrap is absolutely long overdue and the least it could do to make this thing wearable for more than like a half hour. But the worst thing about it, so that\u2019s bad enough. We were waiting for the new, a cheaper model that hasn\u2019t come yet. Maybe a price cut, we didn\u2019t get that. But the worst thing is that if you bought a Vision Pro,<\/p>\nJason Cross (47:52.876) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (48:06.632) One, there\u2019s no path to an upgrade unless you pay 3,500 bucks. There\u2019s no trade-in. There\u2019s no nothing. And that\u2019s crazy because the people who bought that thing are Apple\u2019s most loyal customers. And they basically said, sorry, you\u2019re out of luck. You want a new one, you got to spend 3,500 bucks. So I had to assume they\u2019re going to sell precisely none of these because\u2026<\/p>\nJason Cross (48:13.036) Yeah, nothing.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (48:34.048) I don\u2019t know anyone who would upgrade the first generation to get this one because it\u2019s not good. Maybe they\u2019ll sell straps. People will buy the new head strap. I just don\u2019t understand why, why bother.<\/p>\nJason Cross (48:42.882) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (48:47.056) There\u2019s a few sort of enterprise applications where when they buy one, they\u2019ll buy this one because it\u2019s what\u2019s there, but they would have bought the first gen because it\u2019s what\u2019s Apple\u2019s doing a pretty decent job of building under the hood technology for Vision OS. They\u2019re doing a good job of building all the stuff that goes on in Vision OS to make VR and AR apps, mixed reality experiences and stuff.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (48:52.898) Yeah, okay. Right. Right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (49:06.488) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (49:16.354) They\u2019re not doing a great job.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (49:16.706) Like the frameworks and stuff, the foundation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (49:19.66) The frameworks, the core technology, the eye tracking, all these things that are very, very hard, very, very behind the scenes. They\u2019re not building a great OS on top of it. It\u2019s okay, but it\u2019s, you know, and they\u2019re not building great apps on top of those. The only thing that\u2019s really great are 3D video experiences, which you can\u2019t do for very long.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (49:33.038) Great. Great.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (49:44.206) just a few and far between,<\/p>\nJason Cross (49:45.912) They\u2019re few and far between. They\u2019re really, really slick. can only do so much of those. They\u2019re really trying to work to get kind of the live sports thing where you can be like your court side at an NBA game, but they have to upgrade some arenas and stuff to make that happen. Because it takes a lot of bandwidth and special cameras and all this other kind of stuff to do it live. They\u2019ve done some of those things where it\u2019s not live. And that\u2019s all cool. It\u2019s all coming. It\u2019s all important work that will be.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (49:59.084) Yeah, right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (50:15.714) taken advantage of when they get the more mass market cheaper product out. But God, we haven\u2019t heard anything about that. We don\u2019t know when it\u2019s coming. It\u2019s another like, well, maybe next year kind of thing. Maybe not. Yep. So yeah, the whole vision OS and spatial computing thing is stuck in limbo. And I think there\u2019s just like a tremendous amount of really<\/p>\nMichael Simon (50:27.438) Maybe not. Maybe 2027 at this point.<\/p>\nJason Cross (50:42.434) hard work going on behind the scenes. But from the consumer side, it\u2019s in a terrible place for Apple, right?<\/p>\nMichael Simon (50:47.928) Yeah. And we said when it came out, it\u2019s kind of like a proof of concept, like they don\u2019t expect to sell, but now we\u2019re two years into it and they\u2019ve released basically the same thing that they released two years ago. It\u2019s like, what are we doing here? It\u2019s, it\u2019s outrageously expensive and I don\u2019t think it\u2019s overpriced. I just think it\u2019s expensive because it\u2019s so cutting age and it\u2019s does, you know, the, the eight K and I try like, there\u2019s a lot of high priced<\/p>\nexpensive technology inside it and like technically advanced. But no one\u2019s going to buy it. No one. Or as Jason says, maybe like some business that needs it for some application, but not regular people.<\/p>\nJason Cross (51:29.922) Yeah, there\u2019s some like narrow enterprise things, but yeah, not regular people. that\u2019s a tough thing for Apple to expect from Apple, especially after the big deal they made about it.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (51:38.072) Like they could have at least.<\/p>\nYeah, like they could have said, Vigin Pro is 24.99. Keep the first one around and cut the price by a thousand bucks. Maybe they\u2019d sell a few. Instead they released the same price for a, and they can\u2019t even, you can\u2019t even upgrade your old one. So frustrating. All right. Roman, this week in Apple history.<\/p>\nJason Cross (51:53.624) I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\nJason Cross (52:01.496) frustrating. Yes.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (52:08.504) You\u2019re muted,<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (52:11.792) Sorry. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (52:12.428) See, that happens all the time. Like on your Zoom call yesterday, that probably happened, but we do it too.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (52:18.0) Oh yeah. On December 20th, 1996, probably one of the most important dates in Apple history, Apple announced that it would acquire Next Software for $400 million. And you know.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (52:35.118) Do you remember, so December 20th, that\u2019s like your year is winding down in like tech journalist land. That\u2019s a pretty monumental announcement that happened five days before Christmas. Do you remember like what you were doing, where you were working or were you working?<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (52:40.772) Yeah, yeah, yeah.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (52:49.904) I don\u2019t remember what I was doing that day because yeah, because 1990, was it? 1997 was, was that the year? Oh, I can\u2019t remember now. Was 1997, the following Mack world the year that where like Steve Jobs took the stage and then Bill Gates came on and da da da and all that stuff? think, yeah, cause that.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (53:15.63) Maybe. I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (53:19.342) So I don\u2019t remember another, well, I\u2019m trying to jog my memory, but I can\u2019t remember where I was or what was happening when that announcement was being made. I was working for Mac User Magazine at the time, so I have no memory.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (53:34.254) Steve Jobs\u2019 Bill Gates was August 1997. So this must\u2019ve been 1996, yeah.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (53:38.296) Okay, so was the following year. Yeah, so it was the following year. I remember that, but I don\u2019t remember this announcement in particular. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (53:38.53) Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (53:46.758) All right. Maybe Jason, know, did, was it a shock or did people know when it just was like a press release that formulate, finalized it formalitized it. Formalitized that what I\u2019m looking for. It\u2019s been four hours of this people.<\/p>\nJason Cross (53:58.508) Formalized it formalized I honestly like so around that year. I was working for PC gaming magazines and stuff like I really wasn\u2019t paying attention to the whole the whole jobless jobless era the whole job Steve Jobs free area of like I was not involved in Apple stuff like at all at that time. They killed off my beloved Apple 2 GS line.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (54:28.493) haha<\/p>\nJason Cross (54:29.328) and went with Max and Max were like just black and white. They weren\u2019t even gray scale. They were just black and white at first and then they started doing all these models and stuff. So I wasn\u2019t paying that much attention. I get the, I seem to remember it was kind of a coup. Like that jobs is coming back, that they\u2019re not just buying next, but they\u2019re buying next and they\u2019re kind of doing it in order to get jobs.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (54:35.95) Yeah.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (54:56.367) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (54:56.472) Mm-hmm.<\/p>\nJason Cross (54:56.498) and the other Apple engineers and stuff that he took with him to go do next, Something like that.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (55:03.588) Yeah.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (55:07.12) I prior to the announcement, and I remember there were rumblings of it, but the thing I mostly remember was that Gil Amelio was the CEO, and everybody was like, my God, Apple needs to do something, do something. We\u2019re crashing and burning, because before Gil Amelio, was Michael Spindler. Yeah, and there were a couple CEOs.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (55:16.738) Right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (55:20.856) you<\/p>\nMichael Simon (55:33.037) Yeah, I think so.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (55:36.964) You know, there was just this free fall and I mostly remember 1996 being, I better work on my resume because I don\u2019t know if this magazine is gonna be around for the next year because Apple just isn\u2019t, you know, they weren\u2019t doing well. And then there were rumblings about it, but I don\u2019t know if people were counting on, I don\u2019t remember if people thought it was actually gonna happen or not. I can\u2019t remember.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (55:46.584) Hahaha.<\/p>\nJason Cross (55:46.924) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (55:50.168) Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (56:08.272) So, but yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (56:08.526) Okay. Well, it\u2019s probably the most pivotal moment in not just Apple, like tech, like tech history was Steve Jobs. mean, think about all the things that wouldn\u2019t have happened if that didn\u2019t, if that deal wasn\u2019t made and Steve Jobs doesn\u2019t come back to Apple at that moment. It\u2019s crazy to think about like how that impacted the shape of the tech landscape for decades to come. It\u2019s crazy.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (56:19.279) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (56:20.172) It was a huge.<\/p>\nJason Cross (56:26.468) yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (56:38.156) Yeah, absolutely.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (56:40.336) Well, and I think there was still even some, even when they announced that acquisition, there was still some doubt as to whether to save Apple because, you know, next was this niche company. People were like, how is this going to translate? What does this all mean? you know.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (56:48.022) I\u2019m sure there was, yeah.<\/p>\nYeah, yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (56:57.836) I mean, Steve Jobs didn\u2019t become like Steve Jobs until the iMac and the iPhone and the iPod. Like he was obviously well respected and had done the Mac and you know, was the guy at Apple. But as you said, Dext was, know, it was there. I mean, no one really paid much attention to it. And he wasn\u2019t seen as like the visionary computer guy until five, 10 years later.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (57:01.424) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (57:08.277) yeah.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (57:21.84) Right.<\/p>\nYeah, I think.<\/p>\nJason Cross (57:24.492) mean, if you believe the Steve jobs, movie, the, not the, not the, not the Kutcher one, the other, the other one. if you believe that, yeah, no, the, the, the math fastbender one, that if you believe that movie, the next was pretty much.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (57:33.102) The Ashton Kutcher one.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (57:38.288) That\u2019s a Noah Wiley one.<\/p>\nMichael Fassbender.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (57:43.98) Yeah, that\u2019s better. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (57:51.468) The company existed to get acquired by Apple and get him back. Like when they kicked him out, he hatched a plan.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (57:55.408) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (58:02.722) What bugs me about those two movies is the Ashton Kutcher one. Like he actually kind of looks like Steve Jobs and acts like Steve Jobs, but the movie sucks. And the other movie that he looks, Fast Man, it looks nothing like Steve Jobs nor does he act like it, but the movie\u2019s really good. So I have a hard time to parse those two. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (58:10.658) Yes.<\/p>\nNothing. It\u2019s a really, yeah, it\u2019s much better writing.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (58:21.84) Yeah, so, you know, in the end, know, Steve Jobs ends up looking like this savior and this, and he, you know, and in many ways he was. I don\u2019t mean that in like a, I don\u2019t know, I guess a religious way or something like that, a deity way, but you know, he was a business savior for Apple. But yeah, those two years prior was really shaky and really, I think it\u2019s hard to, that kind of gets lost in this whole thing.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (58:31.661) Yes.<\/p>\nJason Cross (58:35.778) Ha<\/p>\nMichael Simon (58:35.854) You<\/p>\nMichael Simon (58:39.554) Yeah.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (58:51.376) was that Apple was really in bad shape. And it\u2019s kind of hard to describe how bad a shape it was. It was.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (58:58.902) The only thing I knew about Apple at that time was that Simpson\u2019s joke with Nelson writes on his Newton to beat up Martin and it translates to eat up Martha or something. That was my only reference to Apple. And it wasn\u2019t until the iMac that like it put it on my math and God knows how many other people like the iMac was the thing that<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (59:11.504) Right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (59:12.6) Roman Loyola (59:19.439) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (59:25.582) And Johnny, I\u2019ve had a lot to do with that, of course, but Steve Jobs had the vision to bring it to market.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (59:30.128) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (59:30.988) We talked a lot about earlier this episode about how Apple had a lot of Chip It and Chip It products this year. like imagine if Apple had four years of that, like just more creating more and more products for more and more more price segments that are just the same thing, but just like a little bit better with a new chip. And that\u2019s kind of where Apple is at. And that\u2019s when they bought Nex and Nex came back. That\u2019s what their roadmap was.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (59:37.624) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:00:00.022) Like they didn\u2019t have a war. This is not doing well. Let\u2019s shake things up. Like now that it really wasn\u2019t the plan. So it was jobs that came back and said, we got way too many products. We\u2019re everything wrong. We\u2019re not, you know, simplified double down on some narrow things. It really worked. yeah, it was, they, they really needed that. And they went through multiple CEOs in just a few years. Just.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:00:21.858) Yeah. And you know, he\u2026<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:00:25.413) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:00:25.518) Yeah. And, you know, it was chipping and shipping for computers that nobody were buying for one. And, you know, you can say like Steve Jobs had this vision. also had carte blanche to do whatever he wanted because you just said the company was basically bankrupt. So he had to swing for the fences and, you know, he did, and he did a, you know, a ridiculously good job doing it.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:00:30.178) Great. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:00:50.478) All right, Roman, the last reader mailbag of 2025.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:00:52.688) I\u2019ll be back.<\/p>\nSo we were just talking about legacy and last episode we were talking about, or not last episode, the episode before last episode, I think. Yeah. We talked about some of the management changes that were happening at Apple and the topic of Tim Cook\u2019s legacy kind of came up.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:01:06.753) I\u2026<\/p>\nI think it was June was the last time before we started recording today.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:01:19.288) Mm.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:01:23.843) Mm-hmm.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:01:25.078) and people have plenty of thoughts on this. I like to say that before, I preface this by saying that people tend to be negative on the internet in terms of posting comments, in case you didn\u2019t know, in case you didn\u2019t notice that. with that in mind, Johnny Five underscore, yes, please don\u2019t take it personally, Tim.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:01:40.728) yeah? I had it.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:01:42.616) I hadn\u2019t noticed that, yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:01:48.568) I apologize to Tim Cook before we start this segment.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:01:55.152) but johnny5 underscore 75 on TikTok said, he\u2019s already at a pretty low note with iOS 26. Pattyist power on TikTok said, releasing the visual pro flop, fumbling AI, releasing a meh OS reskin and capitulating and causing the fascist, that\u2019s his legacy.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:02:20.75) I mean, that\u2019s all happened in the last like three months.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:02:24.503) Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:02:25.4) That was sort of our point was that like, and there\u2019s all these people leaving, this is the turning point. either ends, his story either ends with that reputation or it ends with a revitalization of Apple. The next year really kind of writes how Tim Cook\u2019s story ends.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:02:28.772) recency biased.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:02:40.666) Yeah.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:02:47.152) Chicken Fried Steak 40, I never thought in my career I\u2019d be like saying, you know, I always thought I\u2019d be saying actual name. Chicken Fried Steak 40 on TikTok said, Tim Apple should have been replaced years ago. He may have kept the profits coming short term, but long term, he did so much damage to the brand. And Peter Wendelin on Facebook said, yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:02:54.264) Chicken Fried Steak 40.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:02:57.486) You<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:03:15.028) statement. Chicken fried steak for you.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:03:18.092) I know.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:03:20.57) Peter Wendlin on Facebook said, if you want to know what Tim Cook\u2019s legacy is, it\u2019s continued growth and stability, nothing more. That\u2019s true, and there\u2019s nothing wrong with that.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:03:29.058) I mean, that\u2019s true.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:03:30.264) That\u2019s right. mean.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:03:32.332) You know, depends on what kind of Apple you want.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:03:35.704) Right, that\u2019s true.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:03:36.472) He really did build Apple from the company that was this underdog. Like it\u2019s popular as it was, it wasn\u2019t huge. was the underdog. It was big, but it was.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:03:43.855) Yeah, right. It was big. It was pretty big. It wasn\u2019t this big by any stretch, it was like the iPhone was rolling. The iPad was rolling. Like they were doing quite fine in 2011, I think it was.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:03:57.4) iPhone was rolling like like 10 million units a year 15 million units a year like they self they sell 70 million iPhones a quarter now like it\u2019s you know, so he 10x to the company like and he built it from the company that was always the underdog to the IBM that they were always really gets like the big dog of tech that even if they\u2019re not the richest company, I mean in videos rolling an AI money like<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:04:01.262) Yeah, OK. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:04:06.486) Right now I know.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:04:16.696) Great. Great.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:04:25.97) Among the richest, a multi-trillion dollar company that is definitely the most influential.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:04:28.696) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:04:35.032) Yes.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:04:35.884) Like regardless of, could say more Windows laptops are sold, but people do what Apple does with the MacBook. Everyone follows Apple.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:04:48.78) Yeah. Yeah. That comment that said, you know, listed off all the things. I know one before that about all the things that his legacy is his legacy is this, know, they\u2019re to announce their earnings in about a month and a half. And I guarantee you they\u2019ll break. It\u2019ll be the highest quarter they\u2019ve ever had ever. It\u2019ll be like $120 billion or something in revenue. I guarantee you now. So when does that.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:04:53.392) chicken fried steak.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:04:58.287) Patty has power,<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:05:13.132) Yeah, probably. Yep.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:05:18.444) Now going to the one after chicken fries, the short-term legacy. Like when does the short-term profits end? Because I do agree with that in a sense. At some point that growth is going to reach a cliff because as we just talked about for the last hour, a lot of Apple is in cruise control and not all that cruise control is heading in the right direction. And you your steering is a little\u2026<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:05:21.889) You<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:05:48.415) Not a lot, but a little bit. And does Tim Cook stick around long enough to steer it back? Or does he just say, know what? I did what I was told to do. I did what I promised I would do and I\u2019m done.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:05:49.72) Mm-hmm. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:06:00.586) yeah.<\/p>\nDo we need somebody else? Do we need, as we talked about Steve Jobs, do we need somebody else to come in and say, although they\u2019re in a very different position, like you said, they\u2019re wildly profitable now, but do we need somebody else to come in and shake things up in order to continue to grow or get into new areas? People don\u2019t give Tim Cook credit for expanding the areas in which, not just their profitability or size, but like Apple watches Tim Cook, AirPods is Tim Cook.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:06:25.015) sure.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:06:32.556) These are massively these products. Sure. I\u2019m just saying just products like the AirPods is a Fortune 500 company on its own. Just AirPods. Like, and that\u2019s a Tim Cook thing like that. So yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:06:34.286) as well as privacy and accessibility and all the things that they do, yes.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:06:43.672) Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:06:53.792) It\u2019ll be interesting. Like you said, we\u2019re in a world right now where there\u2019s just a lot of chip and chip it. It\u2019ll be interesting to see what happens when we get over this AI hump. If we do and get into the other products that we keep hearing they\u2019re working on, you know, I\u2019m that thing that like the robot lamp with a personality thing that we showed off and it won\u2019t be a lamp. It\u2019ll be a screen, but like, man, I want that. That\u2019s a whole new product. That\u2019s a whole new genre of thing. Right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:07:02.818) Mm-hmm.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:07:17.794) Yeah, sure. For sure. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:07:22.69) So we\u2019ll see, we\u2019ll see what they get to market out of this.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:07:28.14) Right. You know, just to put one more period on this, like Steve Jobs did a lot of great things. We just talked about next and coming back. The last great thing he did was to promote Tim Cook to CEO because he knew trying to replace him was an impossible thing. He\u2019s not going to find someone that had the same charisma, the same vision, but Apple was on this<\/p>\npresidents, like Jason said, you know, they weren\u2019t, they weren\u2019t, they weren\u2019t a massive company, but they had, they certainly were looking up and Tim Cook was the perfect guy to bring him to this level. And now maybe we need someone that\u2019s more like Steve Jobs and can see a vision and could take some risks, maybe a gamble or two and, really take Apple into the next, you know, whatever 25 years.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:08:12.204) Mm-hmm.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:08:20.062) Yeah, one could argue the vision pro was their attempt at a gamble that was the completely wrong way to go about it. Right? That\u2019s Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:08:24.75) It\u2019s too, yeah, it\u2019s just too expensive. mean, they have to, they must\u2019ve known they\u2019re not going to sell many of them. It could have been the greatest thing ever made. Like that\u2019s just too much. The iPhone was 600 bucks and people said it wasn\u2019t going to sell. mean, you know, that\u2019s a ton of money, even in 2025 money. That\u2019s a lot.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:08:31.479) Right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:08:37.88) Right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:08:44.686) All right. That\u2019s it people. 2025 is done. We\u2019re closing the door. uh, Roman I screwed up. I I screwed up my number. Uh, this is number 964. Um, yeah. Happy holidays. Merry Christmas. Happy Hanukkah. Happy whatever you celebrate. Uh, new year, happy new year. All those things. Thank you, Jason.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:08:54.134) Have a great holiday. We\u2019ll see you in a few weeks.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:09:09.548) Thank you, Mike.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:09:10.676) And thank you, And thank you. I\u2019m sorry, Roman. I didn\u2019t give you a chance to say anything. And thank you, dear listeners, for tuning in. This was a fun year. We rebooted the podcast. Things are a little different. This was fun. You can subscribe to the Macro Podcast to listen to us all throughout 2026 in the podcast app on Spotify, on YouTube, at the Macro Podcast channel, or through any other podcast app.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:09:15.15) Okay.<\/p>\nI\u2019ll just wave.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:09:39.424) If you have any questions or comments about what we just talked about and what we\u2019re gonna talk about in 2026, contact us through Blue Sky Facebook threads. Search for Macworld, look for the Blue Mouse logo, send an email to podcast at macworld.com, comment under a TikTok video, comment under a YouTube short, real whatever. Just got in touch with us in some way. And that\u2019s it. We will see you for the next episode of the Macworld podcast next year as you talk about everything in the\u2026<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:09:59.736) You<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:10:10.03) I screwed it up one last time before the year was up. Join us next year in the, All right, right, hold on. I\u2019m gonna rewind and start this whole thing. Join us in the next episode of the Macro Podcast next year as we\u2019re talking about the latest in the world of Apple. See you next time.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n\t<\/main><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3011868\/macworld-podcast-the-year-in-apple-hardware.html\" class=\"button purchase\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Read More<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"Skip to content Image: Foundry In this episode, we take a look back at the major Apple hardware releases. What made an impression? What was a disappointment? Tune in and find out more! This is episode 964\u00a0with\u00a0Michael Simon,\u00a0Jason Cross,\u00a0 and\u00a0Roman Loyola.\u00a0\u00a0 Watch episode 964 on YouTube Listen to episode 964 on Apple Podcasts Listen to […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":886654,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[67717,2656,104640],"tags":[],"class_list":{"0":"post-886653","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"category-macworld","8":"category-podcast","9":"category-youtube-videos"},"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/newsycanuse.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/886653","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/newsycanuse.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/newsycanuse.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/newsycanuse.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/newsycanuse.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=886653"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/newsycanuse.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/886653\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/newsycanuse.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/886654"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/newsycanuse.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=886653"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/newsycanuse.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=886653"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/newsycanuse.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=886653"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}