$\"Macworld$ <\/p>\n

Image: Foundry<\/span>\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n<\/p><\/div>\n

It was a big year for Apple software and services. We talk about Liquid Glass, Apple Intelligence, Apple TV, and the other services and software that shaped the company\u2019s year.<\/p>\n

This is episode 963\u00a0with\u00a0 Michael Simon<\/a>,\u00a0 Jason Cross<\/a>,\u00a0 and\u00a0 Roman Loyola<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Watch episode 963 on YouTube<\/h2>\n
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\n<\/iframe>\n<\/p>\n<\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<h2 id=\"listen-to-episode-963-on-apple-podcasts\">Listen to episode 963 on Apple Podcasts<\/h2>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<div>\n<h2 id=\"listen-to-episode-963-on-spotify\">Listen to episode 963 on Spotify<\/h2>\n<figure><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<h2 id=\"get-info\">Get info<\/h2>\nClick on the links below for more info on what was discussed on the show.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3007341\">Code leak reveals A19 iPad, M4 Air with Apple\u2019s N1 chip\u00a0likely coming\u00a0soon<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3007751\">Leaked code spills details of mystery Apple smart home accessory<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3008318\">Internal Apple code hints improved Siri will land next spring with \u2018HomePad\u2019 hub<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3008548\">Apple\u2019s next HomePod mini and\u00a0AirTag\u00a0upgrades surface in leaked internal code<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/2575705\/\">iOS 26 superguide<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/2909804\/cant-read-notifications-in-ios-26-heres-how-to-reduce-the-liquid-glass-effect.html\">Can\u2019t read notifications in iOS 26? Here\u2019s how to reduce the Liquid Glass effect<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/2644146\/macos-26-release-beta-features-compatibility.html\">macOS 26 Tahoe superguide<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/2858361\/how-to-reduce-the-liquid-glass-transparency-effect-in-macos-tahoe.html\">How to reduce the Liquid Glass transparency effect in macOS Tahoe<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/2766625\/ipados-26-release-date-compatilbity-features-beta.html\">iPadOS 26 superguide<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/2808081\/watchos-26-release-date-latest-version-features-compatibility.html\">watchOS 26 superguide<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2 id=\"this-week-in-apple-history\">This Week in\u00a0Apple\u00a0History\u00a0<\/h2>\nOn\u00a0December 21, 1994, Bungie Software\u00a0released\u00a0Marathon, a first-person shooter exclusively for\u00a0the Mac.\u00a0The original Marathon game trilogy is now an\u00a0open-source\u00a0project and is available to download for free on the Mac, as well as Windows and Linux. Check it out on the\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/go.skimresources.com?id=111346X1569486&xs=1&url=https:\/\/alephone.lhowon.org\/&xcust=1-1-3011830-1-0-0-0-0&sref=https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3011830\/apple-software-services-2025-review-macworld-podcast.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-subtag=\"1-1-3011830-1-0-0-0-0\" data-domain-name=\"lhowon\">Aleph One Marathon Open Source<\/a>\u00a0website.\u00a0\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/go.skimresources.com?id=111346X1569486&xs=1&url=https:\/\/apps.apple.com\/us\/app\/classic-marathon\/id419805412&xcust=1-1-3011830-1-0-0-0-0&sref=https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3011830\/apple-software-services-2025-review-macworld-podcast.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-subtag=\"1-1-3011830-1-0-0-0-0\" data-domain-name=\"apple\">iPhone versions are available<\/a>\u00a0in the App Store.\u00a0A\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/go.skimresources.com?id=111346X1569486&xs=1&url=https:\/\/www.marathonthegame.com\/&xcust=1-1-3011830-1-0-0-0-0&sref=https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3011830\/apple-software-services-2025-review-macworld-podcast.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-subtag=\"1-1-3011830-1-0-0-0-0\" data-domain-name=\"marathonthegame\">modern-day\u00a0Marathon<\/a>\u00a0is in the\u00a0works, but it\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/1931881\/bungie-marathon-revival-missed-opportunity-apple-mac.html\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">does not include Mac development<\/a>.\u00a0<\/p>\n<h2 id=\"macworld-mailbag\">Macworld Mailbag<\/h2>\nAll we seem to hear about nowadays is AI and how it\u2019s going to make life easy. But will it?<\/p>\n<blockquote>\nDo we really need Al in our life? We don\u2019t trust the experts and human skills anymore?<\/p>\n<cite><a href=\"https:\/\/go.skimresources.com?id=111346X1569486&xs=1&url=https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/shorts\/jqGT1prhUVM&xcust=1-1-3011830-1-0-0-0-0&sref=https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3011830\/apple-software-services-2025-review-macworld-podcast.html\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-subtag=\"1-1-3011830-1-0-0-0-0\" data-domain-name=\"youtube\" target=\"_blank\">Ozzy Ruiz via YouTube<\/a><\/cite><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<h2 id=\"subscribe-to-the-macworld-podcast\">Subscribe to the Macworld Podcast<\/h2>\nYou can subscribe to the Macworld Podcast\u2014or leave us a review!\u2014<a href=\"https:\/\/go.skimresources.com?id=111346X1569486&xs=1&url=https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/id563933198&xcust=1-1-3011830-1-0-0-0-0&sref=https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3011830\/apple-software-services-2025-review-macworld-podcast.html\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-subtag=\"1-1-3011830-1-0-0-0-0\" data-domain-name=\"apple\" target=\"_blank\">right here in the Podcasts app<\/a>. The Macworld Podcast is also <a href=\"https:\/\/go.skimresources.com?id=111346X1569486&xs=1&url=https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/3uyZkE4tjbwNNrJCLsBUAM?si=OdOljEAYQvC_ewEsMfKzXA&xcust=1-1-3011830-1-0-0-0-0&sref=https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3011830\/apple-software-services-2025-review-macworld-podcast.html\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-subtag=\"1-1-3011830-1-0-0-0-0\" data-domain-name=\"spotify\" target=\"_blank\">available on Spotify<\/a> and on the <a href=\"https:\/\/go.skimresources.com?id=111346X1569486&xs=1&url=https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@MacworldPodcast&xcust=1-1-3011830-1-0-0-0-0&sref=https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3011830\/apple-software-services-2025-review-macworld-podcast.html\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-subtag=\"1-1-3011830-1-0-0-0-0\" data-domain-name=\"youtube\" target=\"_blank\">Macworld Podcast YouTube channel<\/a>.\u00a0 Or you can point your favorite podcast-savvy RSS reader at: https:\/\/feeds.megaphone.fm\/macworld<\/p>\nTo find previous episodes, visit <a href=\"https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/opinion\/podcast\">Macworld\u2019s podcast page<\/a> or our home on <a href=\"https:\/\/go.skimresources.com?id=111346X1569486&xs=1&url=https:\/\/cms.megaphone.fm\/channel\/macworld&xcust=1-1-3011830-1-0-0-0-0&sref=https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3011830\/apple-software-services-2025-review-macworld-podcast.html\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-subtag=\"1-1-3011830-1-0-0-0-0\" data-domain-name=\"megaphone\" target=\"_blank\">MegaPhone<\/a>.<\/p>\n<div>\n<figure data-wp-context=\"{\"imageId\":\"69459f1fa8143\"}\" data-wp-interactive=\"core\/image\"><a href=\"https:\/\/go.skimresources.com?id=111346X1569486&xs=1&url=https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/id563933198&xcust=1-1-3011830-1-0-0-0-0&sref=https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3011830\/apple-software-services-2025-review-macworld-podcast.html\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-subtag=\"1-1-3011830-1-0-0-0-0\" data-domain-name=\"apple\" target=\"_blank\"><img decoding=\"async\" data-wp-class--hide=\"state.isContentHidden\" data-wp-class--show=\"state.isContentVisible\" data-wp-init=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on-async--click=\"actions.showLightbox\" data-wp-on-async--load=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on-async-window--resize=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" src=\"https:\/\/b2c-contenthub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/apple-podcasts-badge-standard.jpg?quality=50&strip=all&w=1200\" alt width=\"1200\" height=\"215\" loading=\"lazy\"><\/a><\/figure>\nApple<\/p>\n<\/div>\nBelow is an AI-generated, uncorrected transcript of the podcast. The timecodes do not correspond to the published recording. Also, the text has not been edited or corrected, so it will contain improper grammar, misspellings, and other errors.<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\nRoman Loyola (00:00.316) we are recording.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (00:12.534) Unscripted, unfiltered, unafraid, welcome to the Macworld podcast. I\u2019m Michael Simon and I\u2019m joined as always by Jason Cross.<\/p>\nJason Cross (00:20.123) Good morning.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (00:21.484) and our producer Roman Loyola.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (00:23.819) Ahoy there!<\/p>\nMichael Simon (00:25.876) Hold on. lost my tab. Okay. There we go. this is episode number 963. Do I have the right script here? look, I, so I said it\u2019s unscripted, but I totally write a script for the beginning. Cause if I know it, I\u2019m never going to be able to get, to get to like the part of the show, right? Mostly. so yeah, this is, we, we\u2019ve reached nearly the end of 2025. So our last two shows are going to focus on Apple in 2025. You\u2019re in review type stuff.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (00:31.819) three.<\/p>\nJason Cross (00:40.322) Mostly unscripted.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (00:55.608) This one\u2019s software and services and next week, which we\u2019re also recording today. So we\u2019re going to be probably a little bit tired after this one is going to be all about hardware. And, you know, we\u2019ll go through what we got, what we didn\u2019t get, what we liked, what we didn\u2019t like, what it means all, you know, whatever, wherever the conversation takes us. But today is going to be software and, services, which is, you know, mainly Apple TV, but probably some, little, a few other things, maybe, then we\u2019ll have a special year-end edition of what we\u2019re watching on Apple TV this week in Apple history, which I\u2019m actually somewhat excited about because I don\u2019t even really know what Roman\u2019s talking about and our reader mailbag Speaking of that you can contact us through.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:39.511) That\u2019s not the first time somebody said they didn\u2019t know what I was talking about.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:44.174) I mean, it\u2019s not you personally, it\u2019s the thing, the thing that you\u2019re talking about. other, not knowing what you\u2019re talking about is a whole separate issue. If you want to talk to us, you can contact us through blue sky, Facebook threads, search for Mac world, look for the blue mouse logo, send an email to podcast.macworld.com, comment under a video, comment under a TikTok or real or wherever you find us Facebook. we, we scour all that stuff and we will talk about the most interesting and, don\u2019t know, exciting comments in a future show. Cause it won\u2019t be next week. All right, Roman, three minutes I got, this is actually Apple, Macworld related anyway. I just wanted to give a shout out to our contributor, Felipe Esposito last week. so he got, he, I\u2019m, I\u2019m kind of learning about all this stuff as well. He got access to a like an early build of iOS 26. He said it was actually, it was so early, it was actually called iOS 19. And so inside those, like, you know, we see the fancy stuff that\u2019s all, you know, the code creates. Underneath that is a whole mess of text that to most people is, you know, just gibberish, but he knows enough about it where he can go through it and find what he calls feature flags and references to like code numbers, which pertain to product, which pertain to processors. And he\u2019s able to kind of pour all over that. And he, you know, wrote a bunch of stories last week about products that Apple hasn\u2019t released that are in development, AirTags, HomePod mini, Studio Display. There was some iPad stuff, some iOS 26 features that we haven\u2019t gotten because Apple hasn\u2019t really announced anything beyond what we have. And, I don\u2019t know, I just found it really interesting. For one, it\u2019s nice to break stuff, but for two, it\u2019s just kind of fascinating how this whole thing works and how he\u2019s able to dig up these scoops based on code.<\/p>\nJason Cross (03:55.717) Yeah, some of the, from, from what I have read, and I didn\u2019t get this from Philippe, but, is that somebody got a hold of an internal development device that from, from the spring, just a month or two before WWDC, they apparently changed the name to iOS 26, really last minute. but, they got a hold of that device and then they just made the software that was on it like public.<\/p>\nto people. They like released it. I don\u2019t know where a torrent a dark web. I don\u2019t know. But but then, you know, once you load that on a device, you can go through it. Like you said, there are most of the code is compiled code, but there are there are lots of sort of configuration files and reference files and scripts and stuff like that that are in plain text, but they just reference API names and stuff like that, you know, framework features.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (04:23.363) Right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (04:52.803) And stuff and so you can just kind of pour like you said, you can go through that if you know what these things are and go, well, we haven\u2019t seen that flag before. We\u2019ve never seen the name for that API feature and all those sorts of things go through and find out what all those things are. And it was fascinating. A lot of this is stuff that had been rumored before, but there was never any evidence, right? It was just like some.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (05:01.155) Right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (05:12.664) Mm-hmm.<\/p>\nJason Cross (05:16.687) Mark Erman or somebody else said, hey, they\u2019re working on a new studio display. It\u2019s nice to go through and say like, no, it\u2019s got a reference number and it references like the resolution set of supports and the refresh rates of supports and stuff like that. It\u2019s got the promotion flag. Now we have evidence that not only does this exist, but like what its features are. It\u2019s really cool.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (05:18.006) Great.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (05:31.864) Right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (05:36.322) Right, yeah, it\u2019s all fascinating stuff. Again, this was months ago, so we don\u2019t know if it\u2019s actually going to come out, when it\u2019s going to come out. It\u2019s just stuff that Apple was working on. But it\u2019s just kind of like a peek behind the curtain of what Apple was working on. And Jason\u2019s right. It was on a pre-production iPhone that, yes, somebody, either an employee or an ex-employee or a friend of an ex-employee, I don\u2019t know, somehow generated on some server.<\/p>\nJason Cross (06:02.448) Right, yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (06:09.01) So Roman, you can put a bunch of those links in the show notes. There\u2019s a whole bunch of stories. He wrote, I don\u2019t know, six, seven or six or seven or something. Just kind of going through, breaking out things. And based on that, know, 2026 is some interesting stuff coming out. Most notably that new Siri, you know, since we\u2019re talking about software today. Finally, maybe, hopefully, the Siri that was promised in 2024, June of 2024 is when we first heard about it.<\/p>\nJason Cross (06:30.651) You<\/p>\nMichael Simon (06:37.223) finally maybe hopefully going to get it in like March of next year.<\/p>\nJason Cross (06:42.085) Yeah, we don\u2019t want to talk too much about next year because we will have a whole entire podcast previewing 2026. but that\u2019s, that\u2019s a decent enough segue that the year kind of started out, but we\u2019re talking about software and services. The year kind of started out really flat because the first, you know, a first iOS release is always in September. It\u2019s got a couple more.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (06:47.982) That\u2019s right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (06:53.858) Right. Right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (07:09.893) follow on releases where they release a couple of little features and stuff. And then there\u2019s usually a spring update that\u2019s bigger. we, last year, last year\u2019s WWDC, June, like you said, June, 2024, they announced all this series stuff. They said it\u2019s coming in an update and we kept waiting for it and waiting for it. And then by the time we were supposed to get that beta, they kind of slipped out through an interview and through this other thing that it\u2019s just not going to happen.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (07:27.608) Right. This time.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (07:37.016) This, this time last year, like this show last year, I\u2019m sure we can go back and watch it. Like we\u2019re like, Hey, the new series coming because we thought it was happening in early 2025. Yeah. And Apple had, there were ads, there were commercials, like Apple was heavily promoting it this time last year. And yeah. And then in March, they, they kind of officially delayed it, but it wasn\u2019t like a press release thing, but yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (07:44.261) Yeah, exactly. Everyone did. Right. They really last minute.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (08:05.494) In March, we learned that it\u2019s not coming. It\u2019s probably not coming in Iowa\u2019s 18. We didn\u2019t know for sure. And it might not even come this year, which it didn\u2019t. And now we\u2019re hoping that it\u2019s next year. But that kind of put a pall over all of Apple\u2019s, like the first half of 2025 was like, wow, this is a disaster.<\/p>\nJason Cross (08:26.907) Yep. Yeah. Until WWDC, there was just nothing positive about Apple\u2019s software story going on and not much going on with services either. Like it was, you know, there were, there were the expected Apple TV releases that we had kind of knew about, but there wasn\u2019t, there weren\u2019t any new, great new features. There were no great new services coming. were none of that stuff. So we were really.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (08:34.774) Right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (08:56.965) going into June and WWDC, we were looking for kind of a breath of fresh air out of Apple\u2019s software and services. And we knew from rumors and stuff that they weren\u2019t going to talk about new Siri at WWDC because they didn\u2019t want to, they had kind of learned their lesson not to promise stuff that\u2019s coming that you don\u2019t know is coming. And so that\u2019s what they did at WWDC.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (09:15.063) Right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (09:19.266) They did briefly, they briefly mentioned it and kind of said like we\u2019re getting it later. But like Jason said, like it was very quick. Like we, weren\u2019t sure if maybe they would devote like a little bit of time to it, kind of demo something, but no, it was like, Hey, hear you had us come in and let\u2019s go on to the topic.<\/p>\nJason Cross (09:33.829) Right. There was no demo, no promised features, none of that. the same is just true of iOS 26 in general. They didn\u2019t announce things that were coming after the release. At WWDC, they only announced the stuff coming in September. I think the only thing they announced really that came after the initial September release was the digital IDs.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (10:03.63) Mm-hmm.<\/p>\nJason Cross (10:04.411) the which basically the pat your passport in and that was everything else. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (10:06.092) Right. Passports.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (10:10.55) And that wasn\u2019t really even their fault. That was more like they have to clear it with regulatory bodies and everything else. Like that wasn\u2019t necessarily an Apple delay.<\/p>\nJason Cross (10:15.217) Yeah, yeah. Right. But they did. They had a whole section where they showed it off and talked about it and stuff and, and said it\u2019s coming and everything else dropped in September. So it\u2019s kind of nice this this year that every time there\u2019s a new beta or something. Every time there\u2019s a new iOS version, iOS 26.3, what\u2019s going to be in it? We don\u2019t know. We don\u2019t have this whole list of like, stuff they announced and haven\u2019t released yet. It\u2019s just not there.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (10:41.742) Right. So did iOS 26, Mac OS 26. All right. So first thing we\u2019re talking about 26 for the first time that we\u2019ve been talking about this for, I don\u2019t know how many years, Apple got all of its software on the same page instead of iOS 19 and Mac OS 16 and, and Metro was 12, whatever everything\u2019s 26, which is great for, for people to understand, okay, this is the new one. It\u2019s 2026. It\u2019s going to change every year. I\u2019m on the latest version and I\u2019m like, look to see if things are up to date properly.<\/p>\nJason Cross (10:55.781) Mm-hmm.<\/p>\nJason Cross (11:00.369) Yes.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (11:11.702) Mac OS still has a name, it\u2019s Tahoe, but it\u2019s Mac OS 26. It\u2019s no longer separate from the other ones. So my question.<\/p>\nJason Cross (11:19.695) Yeah. And I feel like they listened to us directly because that\u2019s a, they did exactly what we always said they should do is just like,<\/p>\nMichael Simon (11:23.747) Sure. Right. Only us. We were the only one calling for this.<\/p>\nJason Cross (11:30.545) Well, we everyone wanted it unified under some, you know, they wanted the same numbers and we would always say like, just name it after the year. That way, you know, which one that way when you call your parents and they said, well, it says 23, you can go, okay, so it\u2019s been four years since you\u2019ve stated her, right?<\/p>\nMichael Simon (11:38.84) to the year.<\/p>\nAhem.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (11:46.83) Yeah. yeah. So that was, that was a good change, long overdue. And yeah, we\u2019ll take a little bit of credit for it. Right. did, so did the launch of that stuff. So let\u2019s go back to June for a moment. That keynote did that kind of overshadow or put to rest all of the<\/p>\nJason Cross (11:51.067) So that\u2019s what they did and it\u2019s good.<\/p>\nJason Cross (11:57.938) Hahaha<\/p>\nMichael Simon (12:13.398) negative stuff before that. did Apple give us what we wanted at WWDC this year in your opinion? If you can go back to June.<\/p>\nJason Cross (12:20.689) I feel like, yeah, I feel like everybody that I feel like the whole Siri thing and AI in general really still hung over their heads because it\u2019s it still does now and I don\u2019t think they I don\u2019t think any of the AI features they talked about really assuage to anybody that Apple is not way behind on all this stuff and has so much more to do.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (12:30.882) Yeah. It still does. Yeah, sure.<\/p>\nJason Cross (12:47.949) Even if you don\u2019t like AI, just like in an, in an analyzing the company\u2019s sort of situation, it\u2019s just like, well, boy, they sure didn\u2019t make anybody think that they\u2019re a leader in this important. But anytime you get like a huge visual overhaul, it\u2019s kind of exciting just because it\u2019s, it\u2019s new and different. You know, I remember I was watching it and I was like, I saw, I saw the liquid glass stuff and I\u2019m like, well, you know,<\/p>\nI like what they\u2019re doing with the menus and stuff, but God, this is terrible. Like every time I see all this, I\u2019m like, yeah, cause every time, cause we\u2019ve been down, we\u2019ve been here before. every Microsoft and Apple and everybody else went through all of this, like transparency interface stuff before and learned for all the way from back then that while it looks pretty, when you\u2019re watching a video, when you\u2019re trying to use your computer,<\/p>\nMichael Simon (13:22.606) Even before you got it on your phone, you could tell.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (13:38.04) Mm-hmm.<\/p>\nJason Cross (13:47.459) It creates contrast problems and it\u2019s hard to read. and it\u2019s it\u2019s The interface stands out instead of the content you\u2019re looking at. And it\u2019s just, it\u2019s always a problem. It\u2019s always a problem. Transparent interfaces are always stink. And we know this from so many places. And so then they went and built one and just the fanciest, coolest looking transparent interface. But so what I have to use these devices. So yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (14:08.056) Great.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (14:12.674) Yeah. So they like, that\u2019s not just an iOS thing. I liquid. mean, everyone knows who\u2019s listening to this liquid glasses, like Apple\u2019s new design language across everything that was that started the keynote and WC that was like the first major thing they talked about. And yeah, we were like, wow, that, looks cool. And they showed like, you know, all the little glass things they use to get the, the, the prisms right. the reflection, right. And it, listen, it looks really cool. It\u2019s impressive.<\/p>\nJason Cross (14:38.256) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (14:41.228) that they\u2019re able to do this on a, to make your phone look like there\u2019s a little panel of glass that you\u2019re sliding up. It\u2019s cool. But as Jason says, like there\u2019s fundamental issues with it. So much so that the guy who designed it is gone now. Like maybe not related, but awfully coincidental that he\u2019s no longer with the company.<\/p>\nJason Cross (14:48.273) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (15:00.581) Right. Yeah. The guy sort of the chief head of pushing all this stuff and interface is going to work for Metta and, and also sort of related every update sense has offered some way to make the glass less glassy. Like the interface changes are still the interface changes, but literally everyone, like they started off with like, like there\u2019s an accessibility feature and then there was an official switch.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (15:16.856) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (15:20.248) Mm-hmm. Laterally everyone. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (15:30.309) this latest release like lets you adjust the glassiness of on your home screens, the clock, the lock screen, sorry, the lock screens clock, you know, at every point, if at every point you have to have to make an update that lets people make it less glassy, then making it so glassy was a mistake. Like you\u2019ve got to admit that at some point. So I think that\u2019s I think we\u2019re going to see a change.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (15:36.428) The lock screen. The lock screen. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (15:52.536) Right. It\u2019s one of those times. Yeah, I think so too. It\u2019s definitely going to evolve like majorly over the next year or two. It\u2019s one of those times when you wonder like, what would Steve Jobs have done in the development process of liquid glass? How would he have a pro, cause he loved that stuff. Remember, you remember Aqua. Like he loved like fancy unnecessary software things, but.<\/p>\nJason Cross (16:10.992) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (16:17.489) Right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (16:21.167) Hahaha.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (16:21.42) He was also very practical and very smart and like laser focused on user experience. And I wonder, you know, how he would have range it. He might\u2019ve just scrapped the whole thing from the start. Like, we\u2019re not doing this. You\u2019re out of your mind. I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\nJason Cross (16:34.853) Well, and, especially after he had been around for Aqua and then after Aqua, the changes that came after that, where they made everything flat. And when they did Aqua, that\u2019s what everyone was doing. Windows seven was all glassy and stuff like that. And then they changed and made it all flat. the whole industry trends kind of flow together. But yeah, I don\u2019t think this, this one\u2019s unique in that you don\u2019t see everybody else in the computer industry.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (16:47.576) Sure. Sure.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (17:03.702) Right. Not at all. Apple stands alone with liquor glass. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (17:04.913) just going around making transparent controls. Yeah. So a lot of the other principles are found all over the rest of the industry. Things like making menus big when you\u2019re there, but as soon as you start scrolling through content that the menus shrink away and stuff like that kind of stuff, that those are relatively good things about liquid glass. But they\u2019ve also messed up a few other things that I think they\u2019re going to improve over time.<\/p>\nLike there are some relatively commonly used functions that are now hidden behind three dot menus and stuff that didn\u2019t used to be. I think they\u2019ll, you know, cause they\u2019re trying to get rid of the buttons and stuff and get you to your content. But I think they may have gone a little too far, on some of that. So I think, I think they\u2019ll come back around on it. So that, yeah, WWDC, it was, it\u2019s always exciting when they change everything, but, especially in hindsight.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (17:40.514) Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (17:54.744) Yeah, the-<\/p>\nMichael Simon (18:00.984) Mm-hmm.<\/p>\nJason Cross (18:04.347) just wasn\u2019t a banner year for Apple\u2019s sort of software when the biggest thing they did was make an interface change that they\u2019re already backing away from.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (18:16.142) I don\u2019t know of anyone who like truly likes it. Anyone in my life that has used it. Like no one said to me like, wow, this is great. Like they\u2019ll be like, well, it\u2019s okay. Or I don\u2019t like this part, but I\u2019ll deal with it. Or, you know, I hate this thing. And like I\u2019ve never read or heard a comment of anyone that says like, it\u2019s always, there\u2019s always some kind of caveat. I like it, but, or it\u2019s really pretty, but.<\/p>\nJason Cross (18:37.41) Mm.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (18:46.298) And it\u2019s, it\u2019s, it\u2019s a surprising move. First of all, when you\u2019re dealing with billions of devices, it\u2019s, it\u2019s very surprising that Apple that this got through in its current or previous form without, you know, somebody raising their hand and be like, Hey, like, I don\u2019t know about this guys. Maybe like re workshop this. Cause I don\u2019t know if this is going to fly.<\/p>\nJason Cross (19:13.969) think we mentioned before WWDC when we all the rumors said there\u2019s a big visual change coming a big design. I think we all said that everyone always hates a change at first, like an interface change, because they got muscle memory. They\u2019re used to it. You\u2019re changing their muscle memory, but it\u2019s been some time now, especially for people like us who are used to all the betas and stuff. And I feel like, I feel like it hasn\u2019t been a hit.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (19:33.422) And this is different.<\/p>\nJason Cross (19:40.107) And the other stuff at WWDC, they were relatively minor updates. Like for the most part, there was nothing sort of, this changes everything or gosh, this is some amazing new, you know, they added a games app. on.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (19:49.827) Well.<\/p>\nThere was one.<\/p>\nYeah, there\u2019s small stuff. The Mac got a phone app. That\u2019s cool. A couple of redesigns.<\/p>\nJason Cross (19:58.94) yeah, there\u2019s lots of good quality of life stuff.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (20:02.008) But the iPad update was huge. Like that one actually changed the identity of the iPad for better or worse. mean, you can quibble with it, but it\u2019s the thing that we\u2019ve been asking for since, I don\u2019t know, since like the iPad got a screen bigger than like seven and a half inches. It was like, need this thing to be a multitasking productivity device. And Apple really gave it to us this year.<\/p>\nJason Cross (20:19.909) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (20:29.979) Yeah. A real windowing interface, not just Mac OS. It is different from Mac OS, but it does let you have layered windows, multiple windows. It works on more things than stage manager ever did and does more than stage manager ever did. they kind of went to. Yeah. You can choose. You, you, you choose which system you want to use. but,<\/p>\nMichael Simon (20:42.828) Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\nAlthough stage manager still exists for whatever reason. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (20:57.169) They went too far and took away slide over and they brought it back. Like, whoops. Some people like that. um, but other, you know, yeah, other than that, they made a big, it\u2019s big changes to the iPad. And especially if you have a big iPad, if you have like a 12 inch iPads or something, where you it\u2019s practically like a laptop. It\u2019s great. Yeah. That\u2019s a really good change.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (21:00.418) Yeah, another one that I changed,<\/p>\nMichael Simon (21:20.002) Yeah. And it\u2019s kind of speaks to where Apple is bringing the iPad, I think. We\u2019ll talk about hardware next week. the iPad has always been kind of caught between is it a big phone? Is it almost Mac? And it always felt like a big phone because it ran a modified version of iOS. They did split screen, but the true multitasking wasn\u2019t really there. The Mac was always better. And this is floating windows, menus.<\/p>\ndesktop quality, desktop caliber apps, all that stuff that we\u2019ve wanted form from the iPad is there. The foundation finally is set or what hopefully Apple is going to bring to the iPad going.<\/p>\nJason Cross (22:03.589) Yeah. You get persistent mouse cursors. get top menus full of things you get the files app, still isn\u2019t finder, but it\u2019s way closer and you can, and you can choose which apps you want to open a file and stuff, which gets you all. That\u2019s like a huge issue that they\u2019ve. So it\u2019s getting much, much closer. We, every year we say the iPad hardware is so far ahead of its software. It\u2019s the software holding it back.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (22:11.724) Yeah, but it\u2019s close.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (22:20.739) Yep.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (22:30.241) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (22:32.08) And I feel like this was the first year where we looked at what they did with the iPad, WWDC, and said like, finally, the software is catching up to what this hardware could do.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (22:43.042) Right now you can argue, maybe it should have been a pro feature. I don\u2019t know. It\u2019s not great on the mini. Like there are still some issues with it where Apple doesn\u2019t know what to do with all of its iPads. But I bet it was 26. Too many iPads and too many ways to multitask on those iPads. Too many like uses, your use cases for each iPad. Like this is for this group and this is for this group. it, like the software is now there.<\/p>\nJason Cross (22:49.401) Right. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (22:54.053) does have too many iPads.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (23:12.406) Like the vision is fairly clear as to what the iPad is supposed to be.<\/p>\nJason Cross (23:15.963) Yes.<\/p>\nYeah, from, from here on out, it just needs a lot of like refinement and a few more sort of, don\u2019t want to call them pro level, but like, you know, sort of enthusiast features for people who know what they\u2019re doing, like kind of.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (23:22.734) Goodbye.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (23:31.894) Yeah, I would like to see, like, I know they don\u2019t do this on the Mac, but it would be good to see, like, features just for the iPad Pro. Give me an iPad OS 27 feature that\u2019s, like, you have to use a Pro to take advantage of it. I don\u2019t know what that would be. I haven\u2019t prepared for that, but something, something that\u2019s, because right now, you know, the iPad Pro starts at 1300 bucks, it goes up to two grand, and the standard iPad starts at, you know, 350.<\/p>\nJason Cross (23:47.089) Hmm. Yeah, I don\u2019t know what that\u2019d be.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (24:00.598) you know, that\u2019s a thousand dollar difference. And we\u2019re talking about a better chip and you know, cameras and face ID and stuff. like, I want to be able to feel like I could do more with the higher end iPads.<\/p>\nJason Cross (24:13.339) Well, and you could just get an iPad Air and you already be in the series chips where you\u2019re just, it\u2019s not even the chip. You\u2019re, what am I, I need all these cameras now? That\u2019s what it is I\u2019m buying with all that money. So yeah, I feel like the Pro doesn\u2019t, the Pro doesn\u2019t avail itself well unless it\u2019s like, this is my video editing iPad. It just seems hard to justify.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (24:16.61) Yeah, that too.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (24:34.774) Right. Right. Which I wonder like, you know, that could be like the next, the next thing that they, they\u2019re doing background processing with this new update and you know, so like all that is coming, I\u2019m sure to make it more viable, but like at some point there just has to be a split in, in iPad OS 26 and it\u2019s like, like a pro level version versus a standard level version. don\u2019t<\/p>\nJason Cross (24:59.857) Okay. I actually look at it. I look at it more like the Mac. There\u2019s big difference between a high-end Mac and a $80,000 MacBook Air in price, but there\u2019s no features exclusive to a MacBook Pro or anything like that. So I like it being that way. But they do need to\u2026<\/p>\nMichael Simon (25:01.08) But yeah, bet I had a big year.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (25:08.46) No, I know.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (25:19.406) I know, I I know. I understand that.<\/p>\nbut the extra processing.<\/p>\nJason Cross (25:28.283) They do need to do more to justify that being there, yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (25:28.856) The action.<\/p>\nSo like on a Mac, we\u2019re kind of in the weeds here, Roman, sorry. But like on a Mac, you\u2019re like the actual, you buy an M4 Macs MacBook Pro, you\u2019re using it for a different reason than somebody who buys a MacBook Air. I don\u2019t think that that\u2019s so obvious on an iPad. Maybe it\u2019s because I don\u2019t use it that way, but I don\u2019t know what you could do on an iPad Pro, like literally.<\/p>\nJason Cross (25:35.985) You<\/p>\nJason Cross (25:53.765) Right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (26:00.536) that you can\u2019t do on an iPad Air. Like there are things on a, like people use the MacBook Pro for a high-end $3,000 MacBook Pro that they physically cannot do on a MacBook Air. Whatever needs to be done, like it would grind it to a halt. I don\u2019t think that\u2019s true of the iPad. Maybe I\u2019m wrong.<\/p>\nJason Cross (26:19.535) No, I agree. that\u2019s again, it\u2019s not a matter of like, well, the software just doesn\u2019t even work or that feature is not even there. It\u2019s just like, it\u2019s a really high end thing they\u2019re doing and it just need more muscle. And I like, I\u2019d rather the iPad stay that way than them make features exclusive to the pro. They just need to make more software and work with more developers to make it so that there are things that you would want to do on the pro that<\/p>\nMichael Simon (26:48.418) You\u2019re okay.<\/p>\nJason Cross (26:48.677) you just need that extra muscle for the same as the Mac. You know, they just, you know, I don\u2019t know what that would be other than video editing, which not everybody\u2019s going to be a video editor other than making their Tik Tok shorts. Like there\u2019s not, you don\u2019t. So I don\u2019t know where we go.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (27:01.186) Right. We, we still don\u2019t have like, they don\u2019t make X code for the iPad. Is that true? Still? They still don\u2019t. don\u2019t think. Roman, do you know that they know? Yeah. So like, yeah. Okay. Maybe that\u2019s it. Maybe they just need to treat it more like a, like a Mac, which they started doing with iPad. was 26. So yeah. big, big year for. Yeah. Right. So yeah. iPad, big year. I\u2019ve iOS was, you know,<\/p>\nJason Cross (27:09.358) No.<\/p>\nJason Cross (27:14.491) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (27:20.389) Well, yeah, and they brought Final Cut and Logic, you know, so they\u2019re getting there.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (27:30.092) If you take away liquid glass, you know, not a ton of stuff. iOS 26 is, you know, small, relatively small update compared to iOS 18. Right? Is that your assessment? Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (27:43.097) Right, interface updates were the big thing.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (27:49.14) And Tahoe, Roman, Man, I hate Tahoe. Like it drives me crazy. you have a, like it, like, I get, like, so I wrote an article a couple weeks ago. I was having like, literal, like, like Sometimes, every couple of minutes, my Mac would freeze for like a second. I, like, I stopped that because I turned off Spotlight and that, that helped. But even like, like I still get like hangups. I still get like.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (27:54.472) you<\/p>\nJason Cross (27:55.063) Hahaha!<\/p>\nMichael Simon (28:18.286) I don\u2019t know. Like I have a, I have an M3 Max, M2 Max. don\u2019t know. I have a good enough MacBook where I shouldn\u2019t have to worry about performance issues, but I swear to you, it\u2019s like affecting me and like pages. So I talked to our Kelly, Karen uses pages all the time and she has the same that she has an M1. So like you could quibble with that, but like pages isn\u2019t it? That\u2019s an Apple app. And it\u2019s like a major issue. If you leave a document open, it\u2019ll like,<\/p>\nJason Cross (28:42.521) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (28:48.174) take up like, I don\u2019t know, 12, 35 gigs of RAM or something.<\/p>\nJason Cross (28:54.081) Yeah, she did some screenshot where it was she left it just up overnight not doing anything just left it on overnight and she came back and it\u2019s pages is consuming 36 gigs of memory pressure. That\u2019s like how\u2019s that happening? Yeah, that I don\u2019t use sheets or pages or anything very much numbers or pages or anything very much. I close it right away. I have not had problems with Tahoe. Like I\u2019m running it on three different Macs.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (28:57.847) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (29:04.488) Right. And that happens to me too.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (29:20.492) Okay, that\u2019s good. Maybe it\u2019s the way I use it.<\/p>\nJason Cross (29:23.289) And it\u2019s been fine. It also doesn\u2019t drastically change. Like outside of things like they gave great things like they gave us the phone app and stuff. I love that. But but but other than that, like liquid glass doesn\u2019t as dramatically change Tahoe as it does on the iPhone, because you\u2019re running all these other Mac app windows, they\u2019re layered there, you know, whatever. So it\u2019s been it\u2019s been for me, it\u2019s just it\u2019s been<\/p>\nMichael Simon (29:34.328) Yeah, but that\u2019s cool.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (29:39.31) Great.<\/p>\nJason Cross (29:51.185) kind of like every other Mac OS release. It\u2019s like, this is fine. It\u2019s not really changing how I use the Mac. It\u2019s something sync better. I like that when a phone call comes through, I like that I have my call history and my phone app. They\u2019re still missing some stuff I would want like the health app. Like I want that on my Mac, because that\u2019s a lot of data to pour through. Yeah, I assume I would hope so. I would hope they need a they need a secure way to sync that but yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (29:55.49) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (30:09.238) Yeah, I assume that\u2019s coming. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (30:18.68) I don\u2019t like the icons at all, any of them. I like the character of the older ones. The ones that are like gray with like the thing in the middle, they just, I don\u2019t know why they did that. I\u2019m not sure why they, yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (30:30.343) yes. yeah. The ones where they\u2019re like, if a developer hasn\u2019t updated their app, and it\u2019s kind of like the old icon with a gray around it or whatever. Yeah, that looks terrible. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (30:39.764) Yeah, it\u2019s ugly. But even like the ones that had been updated, like they were just, they had character and they came out of their boxes before, like it was good. I don\u2019t know why they would change that stuff. Yeah, I mean, I guess like if you take away my performance issues, it\u2019s fine. I just don\u2019t feel like they changed anything for the better. Like settings is still annoying and things are behind menus that I don\u2019t expect them to be.<\/p>\nJason Cross (30:49.125) Ha.<\/p>\nJason Cross (31:08.24) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (31:08.782) Search doesn\u2019t work the way I wanted to. you know, it\u2019s spotlight is I\u2019ve turned it off. Well, I didn\u2019t turn it off, but I turned off like, like the newer stuff because it was, it was like literally using up like, I don\u2019t know, like 400 % of my CPU and some it was nuts. So<\/p>\nJason Cross (31:16.772) You<\/p>\nJason Cross (31:26.683) Yeah, that\u2019s again, that\u2019s a particular thing. I haven\u2019t used much of the new spotlight features and I really should start forcing myself to do that to just see if all the like the neat little automation stuff they have in there. I bet that could be handy. I just need to get used to it. I\u2019m so used to using a Mac the way I use the Mac and I\u2019m not used to that being there.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (31:50.296) That\u2019s the problem with the Mac is that the people, a lot of people have been using it for 20 years. So like you have to train, right. You had to train yourself to use it a different way. And like, nobody wants to do that. another thing I don\u2019t like is the corners. they\u2019re like different, like the menus pop out and they\u2019re like different radiuses. yeah. But they like the, the one below it is rounder than the one above it. it, I don\u2019t know. They just made some weird changes. I don\u2019t understand. And you know, my particular performance issues.<\/p>\nJason Cross (31:54.991) Yeah, you get fast at it.<\/p>\nJason Cross (32:04.945) They\u2019re too round. Yeah.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (32:19.479) Yeah, I haven\u2019t had, I had one instance where my Tahoe Mac was like jittery and I just had to restart it and it was fine. I haven\u2019t had any performance issues. It is the UI issues that have problem. I, you know, I wrote an article about how I missed launch pad. And I got a lot of re-response and it was kind of like.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (32:41.549) Yeah.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (32:46.647) 80 % of people agreed with me and the other 20 % were like, you used that thing? What is your problem? Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (32:54.318) I use use I use large bed. Yeah<\/p>\nJason Cross (32:54.417) I\u2019m in that one. I\u2019m in that group. like what launch pad you just, you just hit command space and you start typing the thing you want to open and it\u2019s right there and you press enter.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (33:04.385) So yeah, and I\u2019ve gotten used to not having Launchpad and I use command space. I just don\u2019t like, when I hit command space, your previous query is still in the search section. And it\u2019s a little thing, I just find it annoying because what happens then is that it then brings up the apps that are related to that query. So like if I typed in TA,<\/p>\nMichael Simon (33:19.234) Right? I agree. It\u2019s annoying.<\/p>\nJason Cross (33:22.403) right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (33:24.387) Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (33:31.407) Right.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (33:32.951) all the apps that start with TA show up and I don\u2019t know, it\u2019s just kind of annoying thing where I\u2019m like, that\u2019s not what I wanted, I have to start over. Even though it\u2019s not, it\u2019s an inconsequential thing, it\u2019s just still kind of annoys me.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (33:45.11) I agree, I\u2019m team lunch pad as well. I liked it. I used it.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (33:47.831) And there are launchpad alternatives, but I just thought all right now I\u2019ll just I\u2019ll just see if I can get used to it. I\u2019m getting used to it<\/p>\nJason Cross (33:48.497) Ha ha.<\/p>\nJason Cross (33:58.811) There\u2019s some good spotlight alternatives too that are out there that are quite, there\u2019s a couple of them that are quite good, but Apple\u2019s making spotlight. I would say better technical problems notwithstanding. I would say they\u2019re growing launchpad on it. But yeah, I think my overall vibe for the latest Mac OS is they certainly didn\u2019t like add or change something that just changes the way I use my Mac. Like makes it so much better, you know.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (34:03.391) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (34:11.81) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (34:25.778) Right. People would like show up at Apple park with pitchforks. Like they can\u2019t, they can\u2019t do that. Right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (34:29.393) Or even for the better, like, I could finally do this or what, you know, it\u2019s just not, it wasn\u2019t that much of a change.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (34:41.09) For what it\u2019s worth, did get several emails of people saying like, I have the same problem and thank you because it\u2019s helped me. And like, was like my solution, which is a bandaid. Like it\u2019s not a solution. It\u2019s a, it\u2019s a quick fix. right. Or, or limit, limit like, can\u2019t really turn off stuff, but yeah, you let you like limit the usefulness of a core feature. Yeah. It\u2019s it\u2019s.<\/p>\nJason Cross (34:43.823) Hmm<\/p>\nJason Cross (34:52.965) Yeah, no. Well, and you have to turn off a core feature. Like that\u2019s not, that\u2019s, that\u2019s not a solution. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (35:09.198) I don\u2019t quite understand how a machine that\u2019s, you know, bare silicon, like I can see if I was using an Intel Mac, like, okay, fine. Like they don\u2019t care, but they must have tested it on like a relatively new MacBook Pro.<\/p>\nSo all right, what else? Roman, did you like the invites app? Because you\u2019re big fan of Apple\u2019s boutique apps, I know.<\/p>\nJason Cross (35:29.297) You<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (35:32.905) Yeah, well, I was going to say, was going to say, you you haven\u2019t talked about the biggest news that came out of Apple software wise, and that\u2019s discontinuation of clips.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (35:44.13) That\u2019s right. know you were a big fan. like my condolences.<\/p>\nJason Cross (35:44.347) Right.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (35:45.899) clips app.<\/p>\nJason Cross (35:48.369) I think they just passed the baton to invites basically as the, as apples.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (35:52.703) Right, that\u2019s true. did kind of just like, yeah, I\u2019m sorry.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (35:55.664) as the app that they make that no one uses.<\/p>\nJason Cross (35:58.287) Nobody uses this right.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (35:58.805) Yeah. Yeah, I think like I\u2019ve tinkered around with invites and I\u2019ve never used it.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (36:05.856) I, well, first of all, how many invitations are people sent to? Like I would use an app like that like once a year, maybe.<\/p>\nJason Cross (36:09.391) I know, right?<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (36:14.461) Yeah, I think it appeals to, I guess, a certain generation of people that is very social and I\u2019m anti-social, so to speak.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (36:24.718) I guess, I mean, I feel like my generation was like the last like truly social generation I sent out invitations to things and I wouldn\u2019t do it.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (36:29.655) So.<\/p>\nJason Cross (36:32.049) I feel like there\u2019s an older generation who sends out invites and stuff and they\u2019re just going to use invites and there\u2019s nothing about this that invites that makes them want to use this and stuff. I think if you send an invite to somebody who isn\u2019t on an Apple machine, they get an email or something, but no, but there\u2019s no reason to go to use this. And then the younger generation, they just group text. They\u2019re not going to bother with any of this nonsense, right?<\/p>\nMichael Simon (36:34.894) .<\/p>\nMichael Simon (36:39.555) Right.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (36:39.743) Right, right.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (36:49.942) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (36:51.63) Thank you.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (36:58.888) Great.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (37:00.064) Right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (37:01.627) So.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (37:03.201) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (37:05.273) Someone wasted a lot of time developing. I mean, it\u2019s fine. We all looked at it when they released it. I think that was March. That wasn\u2019t even part of iOS 26. That was like it\u2019s all in separate.<\/p>\nJason Cross (37:08.913) I<\/p>\nJason Cross (37:16.325) Yeah, I do want to know what how these decisions get made at Apple. Like how? Because I\u2019m sure there\u2019s a million.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (37:22.06) Right. I would love that. Please someone at Apple listens to this and invite me or Jason to your, to like a week. Like we won\u2019t say anything. We won\u2019t even report on it. I just want to know for my own personal curiosity.<\/p>\nJason Cross (37:28.955) Ha<\/p>\nJason Cross (37:35.153) Because I\u2019m sure there\u2019s like so many developers at Apple who have like a side project or just something they\u2019re working on or want to do and they pitch their managers and stuff like that. But at some point this gets green lit and a reasonable amount of resources gets put behind it. And how did they choose this? What were the other things they\u2019re choosing from? Why did they think this was particularly important to invest in? Like I get the games app is terrible, but I get why they make that.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (37:51.171) Right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (38:02.848) Right. makes sense. Right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (38:03.309) Like, I totally understand why and I can see the future vision of like, okay, as they expand this and they expand gaming better and stuff, like I get why there\u2019s a games that the invites thing I just don\u2019t get at all. Or clips.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (38:16.706) Yeah, Google used to have a whole division within their company where it was like, if you want to make something, go ahead and maybe like, we\u2019ll go through a committee and maybe we\u2019ll release it. I don\u2019t know that Apple has that. This might have been commissioned by maybe Tim Cook had a bunch of birthday parties and he\u2019s like, I need an invite that someone bake it for me.<\/p>\nJason Cross (38:28.507) Yeah, what did they call that? There was like a<\/p>\nJason Cross (38:35.409) They used to have a rule. was like, was it the 10 % rule or 20 % rule where like you just get to spend 10 % of your work time working on like whatever that personal project is that you\u2019re excited about and stuff. And maybe it even never gets released, but I don\u2019t know. Maybe that\u2019s also why Google has a incredible reputation for killing after a year for launching and killing a new thing.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (38:57.262) All right, so what else watch OS Like really nothing like it was like the young the sleep score is okay The the hypertension stuff is fine, but liquid glass doesn\u2019t really do much for the watch You know not much there<\/p>\nJason Cross (39:09.307) Honestly.<\/p>\nJason Cross (39:19.291) They made the workout app worse. like it\u2019s yeah. The, thing when you start a workout, like the select a workout, it\u2019s, it\u2019s, it used to be like the overlapping little tabs, like kind of like a Rolodex, you know, now it\u2019s just like these things you slide up, but you can\u2019t really clearly see there\u2019s other ones beneath it. And it\u2019s just harder to use that way. And they ruined,<\/p>\nMichael Simon (39:22.617) yeah? I don\u2019t use it that much.<\/p>\nJason Cross (39:46.745) can\u2019t, I\u2019m not going to come to me, there\u2019s a particular swimming function that they ruined, where you could make it easier to start and stop a workout while you were swimming, like a swimming workout. And that that\u2019s gone now. And everybody who uses it for swimming is like, my god, I can\u2019t, I have wet hands, I can\u2019t do the thing I used to do to start my thing. And now I have to this new interface, it makes it impossible for me to start my stupid swim workout or whatever.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (39:57.24) Okay.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (40:14.296) So I just, quickly Googled it, Jason. It says the old side button pause shortcut is gone, replaced by needing to disable screenshots or use the digital crown side button combo, which takes a screenshot to pause resume. So why would they take that? Why would they take that? Why would they take that away? That\u2019s insane.<\/p>\nJason Cross (40:20.976) Right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (40:28.741) Yeah, you have to take a screenshot to pause or I it was part of their whole kind of little redesign of the OS and stuff and changing the function of what the button does. But yeah, it\u2019s for people doing certain workouts. It\u2019s frustrating to have to use the screen to pause your workout or stop it without it just automatically stopping after you stop working out for a few minutes. So<\/p>\nMichael Simon (40:55.096) Yeah, so if you disable screenshots, you can use that, the screenshot button combo, which is the side button and the thing to start and stop the swimming. Okay. Right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (41:07.141) Right. But who knows that like that\u2019s not written anywhere. You\u2019re never going to find that setting. Like that\u2019s somebody\u2019s got to come tell you the 12 steps that you need to go six menus deep to disable screenshots and then use a button combo. Yeah. Nobody wants that. So yeah, they, they, they did that. They added that. They added that workout buddy, which all that is, is an AI voice that tells you like great job doing three workouts this week. Yeah. You know,<\/p>\nMichael Simon (41:13.89) Yeah.<\/p>\nYou<\/p>\nMichael Simon (41:21.314) Right. Right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (41:28.064) Yeah.<\/p>\nGood job, keep going.<\/p>\nJason Cross (41:35.291) So I\u2019m just not excited about that. They got work to do to make Apple Watch interesting. I mean, the problem is it\u2019s fine. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (41:41.804) I mean, it\u2019s fine. It\u2019s still the best watch out there. Yeah. That\u2019s the biggest issue is that no one\u2019s looking for anything in Apple watch because it does everything that people want it to do. Basically they, you know, they did the sleep score thing, which, know, we don\u2019t really like, I wouldn\u2019t need it, but it\u2019s nice. You know, it\u2019s good to see a visual thing and a score. Sure. But the Apple watch is so far ahead of anything else out there. Like there\u2019s really nothing that needs to be overhauled or really added.<\/p>\nWe\u2019ve said it before, they could skip a year and it would still sell like crazy.<\/p>\nJason Cross (42:14.085) Yeah, they could start doing these every other year. Yeah. And from a software perspective, it\u2019s really hard with a screen that small and such limited buttons and stuff to change the interface and then, but also make it better. everything\u2019s going to be at least a side grade at some point. So I\u2019m curious to see where things go.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (42:36.716) Yeah. what else? Apple TV, our TV OS. Yeah. Okay.<\/p>\nJason Cross (42:41.199) Again, that\u2019s the least changed thing, but yeah. They did a few changes around multi-user households that are kind of nice, that\u2019s not out there anymore. I never use that.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (42:50.668) Yeah. Yeah. Although like maybe I\u2019m missing the setting, but every time I turn on my Apple TV, I get the stupid screen and I got to click the person. I got to click me because I have like, is there a way to default to myself? There probably is. I just, I just had, I got to go look, I got to go look in my, in the settings. probably is a way to just say like, don\u2019t ask me every time, my TV goes out or whatever.<\/p>\nJason Cross (43:04.741) Yeah, I don\u2019t I don\u2019t I never pick. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (43:17.358) But I get the stupid thing where I go like, like, no, that\u2019s not my wife. It\u2019s not me. got it. And then I have two because I have a iTunes one. I got to find out which is I have all sorts of issues with the, with the Iowa, the always 26s, um, vision pro Jason, anything that you, uh, cared about. Cause you\u2019re the only one who actually has one of this group.<\/p>\nJason Cross (43:25.515) Hahaha<\/p>\nJason Cross (43:36.325) They\u2019re\u2026<\/p>\nThey\u2019re getting there. they still have this problem where by and large, all of the main apps that let you get anything done are floating iPad apps. It\u2019s like, what if an iPad app was the size of a whiteboard floating in space? And that\u2019s what I\u2019m using. Even if they\u2019re quote unquote vision perhaps there\u2019s, there\u2019s very few that take advantage of the sort of VR AR nature of it outside of<\/p>\nthe handful of entertainment things they keep doing, like watch this live sport events, watch this concert, watch these things in VR, which is not what people are going to go buy a vision pro for like that. Some things had to be pretty cheap to be just, yeah, even then until it\u2019s live and the headsets $800 because there\u2019s like people aren\u2019t buying these things for that kind of stuff. So yeah, I mean they, they, kind of dip their toe in it. Like there\u2019s<\/p>\nMichael Simon (44:12.088) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (44:20.224) Until it\u2019s live or close to live. the sports stuff is, is it really good? Well, yeah, that too. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (44:38.415) I talk about how clock is a great example of the simplest. No, that\u2019s bad. This is what I\u2019m getting at. Like it\u2019s the most simple basic app that should be an AR app. It should have been the first app you built in development where you said like, okay, people can hang clocks on their wall or have a virtual grandfather clock or all these other things. They didn\u2019t do any of that. They made a clock. No, no. Clock is still an iPad app that just it\u2019s in fact, it\u2019s<\/p>\nMichael Simon (44:41.516) Right. Well, they fixed that, didn\u2019t they? Yeah. thought they fixed that.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (45:00.908) I thought they fixed it.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (45:05.261) So what\u2019s what they all the widgets they changed. yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (45:08.227) It\u2019s a widget and it\u2019s a widget that does one particular thing. It\u2019s one size and you can change the face to like two different faces or whatever. And you can adjust its depth so that to make it look deeper. And then you can like kind of finagle it by like pushing it into a wall or something, because you can place the widget where you want, but it\u2019s just a widget. doesn\u2019t do all the clock functions. It doesn\u2019t become other clocks. It\u2019s not resizable or reshapeable.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (45:32.908) Yeah, like you should be able to like open your thing and like click a stopwatch and then click it. Like that\u2019s the stuff that we want to do.<\/p>\nJason Cross (45:38.193) Exactly. You have a literal virtual stopwatch in your hand that you can click your thumb and do that. You should be able to have a grandfather clock with spatial audio that when it chimes on the hour, it sounds like it\u2019s coming from the clock or, know, those, you know, those, just pay me a consulting fee. you know, those, those clocks that we had every classroom had<\/p>\nMichael Simon (45:42.892) I agree. I agree. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (45:51.97) That\u2019s good. Hey, hey, Apple, listen to these suggestions. Hire, hire Jason. Well, don\u2019t hire him. Hire him part-time because we still need him too. That\u2019s right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (46:05.829) that white clock that has a particular font and face like, why can\u2019t I write? It\u2019s a thing, right? Why can\u2019t I take a virtual one of those and put it on my wall wherever I want? And it\u2019s there all the time. Like it does none of these things. They just made a widget that you can\u2019t adjust very much, but you can place around. So it is a nice widget, but it\u2019s, it\u2019s lit very limited and, but it shows that they\u2019re, kind of getting the whole point.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (46:07.36) Yeah, yeah, they still do. My son\u2019s in high school.<\/p>\nYeah.<\/p>\nRight.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (46:26.286) It\u2019s a nice widget, right? Is it a nice? Like, is it nice? Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (46:35.675) that a floating iPad app isn\u2019t what vision pro is for. I, just needs to be all the other things need to be that.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (46:38.198) Right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (46:44.77) Yeah, I get it. I mean, we can talk for hours about Vision Pro and like what the plan is. But yeah, I agree with total everything you\u2019re saying. You\u2019re right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (46:48.923) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (46:53.307) When you look at a spatial photo, it\u2019s really cool to look at a spatial photo, but when you\u2019re looking through your photos, it\u2019s the iPad app scrolling window. And it\u2019s like, why don\u2019t I have a photo album? Why don\u2019t I have a virtual photo album that I flip with live moving, all my live images move like Harry Potter and stuff. Like this is so conceptually no-brainer and they didn\u2019t do any of this. Anyway, so yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (47:00.494) Just scrolling.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (47:13.56) Right. Right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (47:19.959) Yeah, I\u2019m with you.<\/p>\nJason Cross (47:21.307) Vision Pro, it was fine. It\u2019s not going to move the needle. We\u2019re waiting on new hardware and a big, big change. And this isn\u2019t it.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (47:31.054) Yeah. So like, so we, we, we have our segment about Apple TV, but even like Apple services, like 2026 was 2020. So 2025 was kind of like more of the same. Like they didn\u2019t really blow the doors off of news. News got some stuff. My, my favorite emoji game came out and I think it was in June and they got some like reorganization stuff and<\/p>\nJason Cross (47:51.195) Ha ha ha.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (47:54.798) Like news is like legitimately pretty good. I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s worth $13 a month if you don\u2019t subscribe to other stuff and have like Apple one, but it\u2019s good. Like I use news all the time. Probably I use, I probably use news more than like Apple TV at this point. It\u2019s, good. Um, but<\/p>\nJason Cross (48:10.193) I agree. It\u2019s a good news app, but I don\u2019t think that they made. I feel like it\u2019s all the services stuff got little dips and tucks this year, right? Apple music got little, the auto mixes. It\u2019s a nice transition thing. Everyone else has been doing this for awhile.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (48:21.772) Right, right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (48:26.804) It\u2019s nice. Sometimes that thing bothers me too because like it\u2019ll mix to like 30 seconds into a song. It\u2019s like, well, I didn\u2019t want to, I want to hear the beginning of it. Like it\u2019s cool that it does it, but it\u2019s not always good. Like, man, I should, I should have my own show about like griping about Apple. I didn\u2019t realize how upset I was until this episode.<\/p>\nJason Cross (48:36.017) haha<\/p>\nJason Cross (48:45.041) But they did things like lyrics translation in there and you know, there\u2019s some a couple of nice little things in wallet like they did the digital IDs. But again, they\u2019re very, very limited. It\u2019s just certain TSA stops in certain places and it\u2019s only in America and yet again, maps got a couple of nice features like it kind of learns the route you take all the time and can suggest a different route or stops along the way and things like that. But<\/p>\nMichael Simon (48:50.763) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (49:12.428) Yeah. I use, I use maps a lot. Maps is good. I stopped Google maps, I don\u2019t know, maybe eight months, 10 months ago. Like I use map, Apple map pretty much exclusively. It\u2019s good. You know, when you search for a place, you get all the reviews and stuff and pictures. It\u2019s good.<\/p>\nJason Cross (49:25.722) In terms of<\/p>\nIn terms of changes to it, to that service this year, it was relatively minor. I feel like the biggest useful feature is beta and buried. there\u2019s that, there\u2019s that, recent places history, the history of your places, which is completely done on your device. They\u2019re not track. Right. They\u2019re not, they\u2019re not tracking you. your, your phone is tracking you, but like Apple doesn\u2019t get that info.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (49:34.903) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (49:41.72) the recent places or whatever it is, that\u2019s cool. Nobody has any idea what that is. Yeah. Yeah. Right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (49:56.281) Other apps don\u2019t get that info. It\u2019s just locked within there, but you have to go like three layers deep to see it. And it\u2019s a little wonky about getting the places right, which is why it\u2019s in beta. But I do want to see them polish that up and surface it because I think that\u2019s a super useful all the time. Where did, was the name of that place we went to? You know, and you could just go find that would be great, but<\/p>\nMichael Simon (50:12.022) It is. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (50:19.328) Or even like someplace you go to once a month. Like that recent places things isn\u2019t always like the one that they do on the, on the car. Like it\u2019s only like the last five places you went to. Like the other one is, is a, yeah, I agree. That\u2019s a better AI I\u2019ll probably get even stronger with that stuff. Like, okay, it\u2019s Tuesday and four weeks ago on Tuesday you went here. Do you want to like, they\u2019ll, they\u2019ll start doing more of that. Like they already kind of do some of that. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (50:28.365) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (50:42.769) This is all, yeah, that\u2019s all the personal context stuff that the new series is supposed to do. So you can see where things they developed for that have found their way into other products, even though the series isn\u2019t out yet. Like going like, where do you go all the time so that I can understand you better and give you personal contextualized answers? Well, they surface that in maps kind of three layers deep and it\u2019s a beta thing, but.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (50:47.948) Right. Right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (51:09.816) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (51:10.971) So Apple Fitness didn\u2019t get much of anything. I feel like they\u2019re treading water because they\u2019re doing a bigger thing, right? There\u2019s supposed to be a redesign. There\u2019s supposed to be a big redesign of the health app and this health plus service that\u2019s gonna roll the fitness plus into it. Because they have too many services that people don\u2019t use. And I think fitness plus is one that unless you have Apple One, nobody subscribes to it. Like it\u2019s really, really low numbers.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (51:17.848) Yeah, that health health plus rumors. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (51:35.534) Yeah, I have to assume if you like have an app or a Peloton bike or some like they have their own fitness subscription. So to use that one on top of it, you would have to be completely like agnostic of all other equipment and apps and that\u2019s unlikely. I agree.<\/p>\nJason Cross (51:43.547) Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (51:53.637) Yeah, I just want to watch workout videos on my TV or my iPhone in the hotel room and follow along. And it\u2019s good at that. They\u2019re great workout videos, but that\u2019s all it is. to charge for that alone is hard, but to give that as part of a bigger health plus service makes sense, but then they have to redesign health and they\u2019re, I think they\u2019re doing all that and that\u2019s why fitness hasn\u2019t gotten much anything this year.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (51:56.509) Right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (52:14.744) Great.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (52:18.914) That\u2019s probably true. And I\u2019ve said for a while, I have a Peloton, but I\u2019d push it by Peloton because the crossover there is, you know, there\u2019s a lot of overlap. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (52:26.811) There was a, there was a minute when it was a really good idea. I\u2019m not sure that it is now, but, now that, now before they did fitness plus, that would have been a good thing to do. Now that they\u2019ve got this competing thing and stuff, like, I don\u2019t know what the point would be. they don\u2019t, they don\u2019t want to make him buy, sell bikes. That would be the point of bikes and treadmills. guess Peloton does treadmills now, right? Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (52:45.414) They\u2019re good. do. Yeah. Treadmills bikes. I have a new like AI camera coach thing. Yeah, of course. All right. So I wanted to end this in less than an hour and it\u2019s 53 minutes and we have more to talk about.<\/p>\nJason Cross (52:54.04) of course they do. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (53:01.733) So services, yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (53:07.729) Well, but what\u2019s the good news service? I guess the good news service is the content on Apple TV has been very good this year. Not a lot of new features, but new content has been<\/p>\nMichael Simon (53:13.58) Very good.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (53:19.372) I got a new name. I got a new, they got a new logo. They got a new intro. The, little, I like that little Apple thing. Every time I see it, I\u2019m like, I cannot believe that they spent God knows how much time and money making this out of glass just to film it. Cause it\u2019s so frigging cool. Yeah. Right. That was the, that\u2019s the right answer.<\/p>\nJason Cross (53:22.275) It\u2019s true. Yep.<\/p>\nJason Cross (53:32.943) Right? Yeah. I told my wife about it. She said why? Like, like, I mean, it\u2019s, it\u2019s fine. But they could have spent half as much time and money making it look I like and it would look identical. Like there\u2019s no they they really did it the hard way for no good reason. But it does look very cool. But yeah, they so they dropped the plus and that\u2019s interesting.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (53:43.79) It could be done in 10 minutes.<\/p>\nRight.<\/p>\nRight, right, but it does look very cool.<\/p>\nThey paid, Billy Eilish\u2019s brother to do the little intro. Yeah. Yeah. Sure.<\/p>\nJason Cross (54:00.753) It\u2019s interesting they dropped the plus because like so many other services are plus and it\u2019s like, are they going back away from that? Are they? Are we going to see that go? I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (54:08.398) Right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (54:13.516) I don\u2019t either because right, they established that plus is the pay thing. Although Apple music is not a plus, it? It\u2019s just an Apple music, right? But there\u2019s no other version of it. It\u2019s just Apple music. You pay for it or you don\u2019t. So I guess Apple TV fits there.<\/p>\nJason Cross (54:21.957) Right, it never has been, but it\u2019s always been.<\/p>\nJason Cross (54:29.595) But if you don\u2019t pay for it, you still you do get the Apple Music app, even if you don\u2019t subscribe to Apple Music and you can buy albums and stuff and they\u2019re in there. So yeah, it\u2019s a little confusing why they dropped the plus because now it\u2019s and they did it on the worst product they did on the product where there\u2019s hardware and an app and a service that now all have the same name.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (54:34.402) That\u2019s true.<\/p>\nYeah, yeah, you\u2019re right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (54:51.094) Right. That\u2019s true.<\/p>\nAnd I tell you after this episode, I don\u2019t like anything Apple did this year.<\/p>\nJason Cross (55:01.617) you\u2019re down on Apple. I feel like the iOS 26 era may yet end up being great. But that\u2019s going to happen. If that happens, it\u2019s going to happen because the new series great and that doesn\u2019t come till 2026. The 2025 story around iOS 26 has been well,<\/p>\nThey kind of went too far on the on the big UI change and everything else has been some nice little quality of life improvements that have mostly been pretty good. Except for iPad. It\u2019s a huge win for iPad, but but the rest of the software story just hasn\u2019t doesn\u2019t seem software and services feels like it didn\u2019t have a banner year. It felt like it was fine.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (55:37.164) again.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (55:45.774) Right. Even though like Apple played it off as if it was because it\u2019s everything has a new name and the liquid glass and like it was set up to be huge. And yeah, it\u2019s not even like an expectations thing. Like it just didn\u2019t do it.<\/p>\nJason Cross (55:50.093) Of course.<\/p>\nJason Cross (55:56.838) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (56:02.155) I don\u2019t know. Maybe we\u2019re missing something.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (56:03.47) All right, 56 minutes in. Roman, are we really 56 minutes into this thing? With three segments to go and a whole nother show. You\u2019re the producer. How are you letting me do this?<\/p>\nAll right. We\u2019re going to, I\u2019m sure we have way more to say Jason. I\u2019m sorry, but we\u2019re going to stop griping about apples right now. Yeah. Let\u2019s go to. all right. don\u2019t know. Rova, do you want to do your thing first and then we\u2019ll do Apple TV or then, or, or like, it\u2019s a continuation. What was the best thing on Apple TV we watched instead of this week, this year, what, what we watched, what we\u2019re watching.<\/p>\nJason Cross (56:23.119) Yeah, no, we need to stop.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (56:47.298) whatever you want to call this segment, your favorite thing on Apple TV or your least favorite, I don\u2019t care. Favorite thing, least favorite, whatever.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (56:51.329) The favorite thing.<\/p>\nWell, my thing was the worst thing that I saw on Apple TV. So the worst thing that I watched on Apple TV this year is a show called K-Popped. Yeah. And this is a show where it\u2019s essentially one of these music reality shows, kind of like, I guess like The Voice and American Idol and those kind of.<\/p>\nJason Cross (56:55.653) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (56:57.59) All right, what\u2019s the worst thing on Apple TV?<\/p>\nMichael Simon (57:07.098) you mentioned this yesterday.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (57:19.815) I didn\u2019t know that. So it\u2019s like a game show of sorts.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (57:23.507) of sorts. It\u2019s more like, what\u2019s that show? The Masked Singer kind of show. I don\u2019t watch a lot of these shows.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (57:26.188) I thought it was a documentary.<\/p>\nJason Cross (57:31.025) So I, my understanding of the concept, my understanding of the concept is that they take popular Western hits and then had K-pop star groups do a K-pop version of, well, no, no established K-pop stars in Korea. You, you may not ever heard of them unless you like follow K-pop, but like established K-pop groups did a K-pop version of.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (57:32.846) You know a lot of amazing.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (57:44.843) Yes.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (57:44.95) like up and coming K-pop stars.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (57:47.511) Though these are pretty established K-pop stars. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (57:49.486) Oh really? Oh okay.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (57:55.384) Right, but they\u2019re big enough, Okay.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (57:55.803) Right.<\/p>\nJason Cross (58:02.213) Western hits that you would have heard on, you know, your streaming or whatever. That\u2019s the that\u2019s the hook.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (58:08.299) Yeah.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (58:13.003) And know, K-pop is huge right now. You know, K-pop Demon Hunters was a big thing this year. That\u2019s not on Apple TV. I almost mentioned those things, yeah. Yeah. K-pop\u2019s been a big thing now for a couple of years. So I guess this is kind of Apple\u2019s way of trying to jump on the bandwagon. And so what I don\u2019t like, so.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (58:22.432) I bet they wish it was though.<\/p>\nJason Cross (58:23.599) No, that\u2019s Netflix. Yeah, they wish it was. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (58:35.278) Alright, what don\u2019t you like about it,<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (58:40.415) It\u2019s a very, the show is super produced and maybe, maybe it\u2019s a cultural thing. Cause I don\u2019t, I\u2019ve watched Korean shows, but mostly like, you know, more drama kind of shows, not like reality shows. So I don\u2019t know, game shows in Korea. So I don\u2019t know if they\u2019re, if this is the way they produce the shows there, but it\u2019s super produced to a point where you\u2019re just kind of like, man.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (58:44.312) Okay.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (59:09.739) can we just get on with it kind of thing? So, cause they do the thing that they do in music shows that I hate where they introduce the characters. In this case, it\u2019s the K-pop group and the American group. And then they do a little thing on stage and they talk about how they love each other and how do they admire each other\u2019s work. And that, that, that I find annoying cause it\u2019s just, you know, it\u2019s.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (59:21.794) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (59:26.801) Ha ha ha!<\/p>\nMichael Simon (59:32.076) Why did you watch this show? sounds like you hate everything about it.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (59:34.679) Well, cause I was like, what is this about? saw it and I was like, what is this about? The hosts are Cy, know, from Gagam style and Megan Thee Stallion. Yeah, there are monster people on the show. So they\u2019re the host. so the pattern is, you know, they introduce the stars, who\u2019s going to work with who. Then they go quote unquote backstage to show the whole process.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (59:42.359) yeah, he\u2019s apparently like a monster artist.<\/p>\nJason Cross (59:43.291) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (59:49.656) Yeah, he\u2019s huge.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:00:04.991) And the process, and you know, they show them working together and then they show the one-on interviews where they talk about what\u2019s happening and how they\u2019re all hyped and stuff like that. And then they go on stage and they do their performance. And then they\u2019re usually, two groups. So there\u2019s two groups of K-pop stars and American stars working on the show. So they\u2019re doing two songs. So the one group judges,<\/p>\nthe first performance and then they switch and then the second group judges the second performance. And then they come up with a quote unquote winner. it\u2019s totally arbitrary. There\u2019s no like, so. Yeah, and it\u2019s just, I don\u2019t know. It just didn\u2019t come off very, it came off very manufactured. I mean, all these shows are, they call them reality shows, but they\u2019re not, they\u2019re all scripted. I like this podcast.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:00:45.228) Most judging is, but yeah, okay.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:01:01.355) Sure.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:01:03.263) So they\u2019re very scripted and mannered.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:01:05.772) Yeah, yeah, of course. They kind of know that going into it that yeah, it\u2019s not like they don\u2019t get a script, but it\u2019s all very produced in the sense that they know what\u2019s going to happen kind of.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:01:10.006) Yeah.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:01:16.255) Yeah. And then, and then in the end, the songs are just kind of okay. They\u2019re just not, you know. So the first episode features Megan Thee Stallion with Moonshaw, Sheon, and Sioon of Billie. They do Megan Thee Stallion\u2019s song Savage. Nope, says us, that\u2019s the other thing.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:01:22.21) Are they like super popular songs?<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:01:30.6) yeah. okay.<\/p>\nYeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:01:40.275) yeah. I like how you said that with the question. That\u2019s like the big, like one of the ones, one of the biggest songs that she has. Yeah.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:01:44.919) Well, so the thing is, Savage is a hip hop song, right? So I don\u2019t understand what makes it that different from, I know there\u2019s a difference between K-pop and hip hop, but is it really that much of a big of difference to make it for the show, do you know what I mean? Because then they did their song and I was kind of like, all right, but it didn\u2019t make me go, whoa, that\u2019s different. It was just kind of.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:02:10.932) Okay.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:02:12.875) And then the second song on the first episode, they had Patti LaValle and then the other half of Billie do Lady Marmalade.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:02:17.71) Okay.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:02:23.736) Billy Eilish, the other half of\u2026 Billy who?<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:02:25.803) No, there\u2019s a it\u2019s Billy is a kpop group. It\u2019s Billy with I want to say three else. So anyways, if I could play a clip, I would, but I don\u2019t want to get a copyright strike. So right, especially Apple. But anyways.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:02:29.646) okay. All right. Can we stop this? This is going on way too long.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:02:40.35) We\u2019re right, right. That\u2019ll be, we\u2019ll be forced to take it down obviously. Hold on. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Keep talking because I\u2019m going to type it into Rotten Tomatoes and see what the tomato score is.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:02:52.497) I\u2019m going to guess less than 20%. That\u2019s a guy. Guess I haven\u2019t I\u2019m calling my shot. No, I just saw like the promos and stuff and said like, oh, well, they slapped this together real quick to get on the like huge like Korea stuff in general is big right now and not just kpop. I love this stuff. And we have our favorite Korean show that we watch on Netflix, which is<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:02:58.807) Yeah. Have you watched this show, Jason? Because I know you have kind of a, yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:02:59.544) So the-<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:03:09.154) There are.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:03:11.884) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:03:20.985) It\u2019s called chef in my fridge, but it\u2019s the Korean name was to please to care my refrigerator, but it\u2019s it\u2019s like a long cooking competition show where they take celebrities who are famous in Korea, and they bring their fridge and the two chefs compete against each other to take stuff out of their fridge and create like a fancy meal with it. And it\u2019s like it\u2019s long and it\u2019s no like celebrities. Like if it was done in America, you\u2019d have<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:03:40.001) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:03:40.576) Out of like regular people? Like, like,<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:03:47.697) Hugh Jackman on and they would bring Hugh Jackman\u2019s fridge to the studio and they\u2019d open it and they\u2019d go through all the stuff in Hugh Jackman\u2019s fridge. then there\u2019s, it\u2019s called The Chef in My Fridge. And then two competing professional chefs would take stuff out of his fridge and have 15 minutes, which is no time at all, to create something with the stuff that\u2019s in his fridge. And it\u2019s really long, it\u2019s like weirdly long.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:03:50.03) Uh-huh.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:03:53.934) That actually sounds super interesting. What\u2019s it called?<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:04:05.506) That\u2019s nighttime, yeah.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:04:05.841) Yeah, that\u2019s not any time at all.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:04:11.416) That\u2019s interesting.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:04:16.881) And like each episode is an hour long and it\u2019s a two parter. It\u2019s like crazy, but it\u2019s fun. It\u2019s a fun show. We watch that on Netflix. That\u2019s a Netflix thing.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:04:17.175) Okay.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:04:25.524) So K-Pop has no score. Neither critic nor audience. Not enough people have rated it to be, to be scored.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:04:33.514) Wow, they didn\u2019t even.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:04:34.731) Well, it\u2019s interesting because, yeah, in prepping for the show, I was looking for some K-pop reviews and nobody has reviewed it as far as I can tell. So it hasn\u2019t gotten any press. It got covered on a couple of K-pop sites. But other than that,<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:04:43.778) Yeah. I gotta tell you, I didn\u2019t even realize it existed until you told me.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:04:44.145) Hahaha<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:04:53.422) On IMDB, it has a 6.1 out of 10 with 289 reviews. That\u2019s not a soul bed. All right, enough of this. Jason, what\u2019s your favorite or least favorite thing?<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:05:03.629) I wouldn\u2019t, I can\u2019t pick just one favorite, but I\u2019ll say they had a great year of new things. So like Severance season two, Pluribus has been amazing. I really like, I really liked the studio. I really liked murder bot. I haven\u2019t watched the season four of, of, what do call it? morning show yet, but yeah, they\u2019ve, I, I\u2019m, I\u2019m still waiting for my next, and I think it\u2019s final season of for all mankind, but<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:05:08.142) All right. Say good.<\/p>\nYep. Yep.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:05:24.866) Morning show.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:05:33.047) Yeah, they\u2019ve had they had a really good year of just like solid stuff. We\u2019re almost always watching something from Apple TV. Amongst all our other streaming services and stuff. There\u2019s almost always a current show that we\u2019re watching and enjoying on Apple TV. It\u2019s just become kind of like a reliable place to find something good.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:05:54.798) Right, I agree.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:05:55.969) yeah, so they had and they had some good hits this year.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:06:00.012) Yeah, I\u2019m so like I\u2019m watching Ploribus. My wife and I are watching it. Like I\u2019m starting to get a little bit irritated with this pace. Like it\u2019s very slow. Like I\u2019m holding out. I haven\u2019t seen the last one. great. I can\u2019t wait.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:06:09.201) The last episode, the last episode was super slow. that was the super slow one. That. Yeah. I mean, that\u2019s a Vince Gilligan thing, but like he, he, he let them.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:06:22.766) Well, yes and no, Breaking Bad was like, like they were a couple, but every episode was like jam packed with something. This is like, the pacing is very slow. We\u2019ll see. I appreciate it for what it is.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:06:33.177) I mean, Breaking Bad would have like a whole 10-minute segment of like Mike Armantrout disassembling a car to look for a tracker. And they just let that go on and on. Okay.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:06:39.831) Yes.<\/p>\nNo, I get that for sure. But something happened in every episode to keep your interest. And this one, like, it\u2019s like, I\u2019ll watch 25 minutes and it\u2019d be this small thing that happens and then it\u2019s over. But like I said, I\u2019m intrigued enough to keep watching it.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:06:57.553) gosh, I don\u2019t, I feel like something big happened in every episode, okay. Like the one you just watched, the guy from Paragra just left his whole thing and he got Carol\u2019s tape and left and got in his car and tried to go find Carol. Like it was like a huge deal.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:07:04.152) I don\u2019t know about big.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:07:16.364) I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve watched that yet. The last one I saw was, I might be too big. The last one I saw was she was like, she found something in the dumpster and like gasped and then the thing ended and I got to watch the next one to find out what that is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:07:19.473) Then you\u2019re two, you\u2019re two episodes behind.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:07:21.227) Spoilers!<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:07:31.029) in the big frozen warehouse. my God. If that\u2019s where you are, you\u2019re missing some huge stuff. You missed the amazing John Cena cameo. You missed all kinds of good stuff. my God. shoot. Yeah, you\u2019re like three episodes behind. You missed all kinds of good stuff. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:07:38.414) you<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:07:42.975) I haven\u2019t seen him yet.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:07:48.509) Maybe three. Well, I mean, the problem is that I\u2019m not compelled to watch it every week. It\u2019s good. It\u2019s intriguing. I\u2019m just not like the first episode I was like, oh, I really want to see the next one. Then the second one got me. Each week is like, okay, fine. Like she\u2019s still angry and she\u2019s still trying to figure out what\u2019s happening and we\u2019ll see.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:08:05.809) Okay.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:08:13.556) All right. My favorite. Well, I saw I wasn\u2019t really paying attention to anyway. Who cares what I liked? Let\u2019s just end the show. We talked about Roman. we still have two more damn segments. Roman, what\u2019s the weak in history?<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:08:14.149) I\u2019m not going to spoil anymore because my god like you\u2019re further behind than I thought.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:08:31.799) Okay, so we have the week in history and I have only one email for mailbags so we can make this a little quick. So this week in Apple history On December 21st, 1994, Bungie Software, yeah, Bungie Software released a game called Marathon. It was a first person shooter and it was exclusively for the Mac. It ended up being a trilogy.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:08:38.647) Okay.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:08:46.382) All right, this is the one that I was interested in this.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:08:58.594) Okay.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:09:02.538) And it was a very popular game at the time. Fast forward to today, Marathon, that original trilogy is actually available online as an open source project. And you can download it for free on the Mac. We\u2019ll put links to it in the show notes. And you could even use Play It on Windows and on Linux.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:09:26.562) Was it only Mac throughout its whole development cycle? Or did it expand to other? it did. Jason\u2019s saying no.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:09:31.091) Yes.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:09:34.929) I\u2019m trying to remember, I know.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:09:37.237) The first one was and the second one was.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:09:40.066) Like, so what made it, like what made it like interesting? Like, was it like a production company that people knew or was it like a game that people like, like what was, don\u2019t, this totally passed my radar back then. Although I was pretty young.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:09:40.784) Yeah.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:09:45.932) So is a.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:09:49.691) No.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:09:50.807) Yeah. Yeah. So, Bungie Software back then, this was their first game and it was Mac only at the time. And it was a first person shooter. And it-<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:10:00.234) Right.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:10:05.794) Was it like, did it like capitalize on like the Doom stuff? Was that around that time? Doom was around that time, yes.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:10:10.369) Doom, yeah, Doom was around that time, yes, yes.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:10:10.617) Yes. It was, it was a couple of years after Doom and part of what made it special. used that same sort of technology, the same sort of like 2D billboard, create a fake 3D kind of look, but it had a deep story and a lot, it was, I don\u2019t want to call it an RPG, but it had a lot of gameplay that was, wasn\u2019t just shooting. And it had this whole story about like a rogue AI that went crazy and<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:10:24.226) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:10:35.715) Mm-hmm.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:10:40.237) on the ship that you\u2019re trapped on and everything. was, Yeah it was kind of a big deal that, but you had to have a Mac to play. think, I know a Windows version came out, but I want to say it was something like eight years later. Like it was, it wasn\u2019t later that year. It was a Mac only thing for a fairly long time.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:10:55.519) It was a while later, yeah.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:11:01.505) Yeah, yeah. And then Bungie went on, they released a couple other games that started on the Mac. But I think most people know Bungie for Halo.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:11:18.734) Yeah, I was going to say, like, I know that name. They must have done something bigger than this.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:11:20.086) Yeah.<\/p>\nRight. And then they decided they needed to make more money and abandon the Mac development altogether. Yeah. And then they got sold to Microsoft and there was a whole big story behind it. Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:11:27.576) Right, don\u2019t, don\u2019t, don\u2019t, don\u2019t.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:11:28.785) Well, yeah, so that history was.<\/p>\nYeah. So the marathon sort of game world universe thing kind of evolved into Halo. Halo kind of takes so many of its bits and pieces of the Halo lore and universe and stuff from the marathon games. They\u2019re not directly related, but like there was a lot of pieces they took from our time and they first demoed Halo at a Mac world on a Mac. Yeah, it was a different game.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:11:57.91) no way. So did Apple like drop the ball here? Like, they have like really? Yeah, OK.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:12:01.273) It was a very different game. No, they didn\u2019t have any investment in Fudgy or anything.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:12:07.532) No, but what I guess I\u2019m asking should they have embraced it more? it like was that like where they went wrong with gaming on the Mac?<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:12:13.191) Jason Cross (01:12:13.953) It wouldn\u2019t<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:12:15.893) I don\u2019t think it would have mattered. At the time, Apple did have their, what they called their evangelist group. So Apple had a bunch of what they called Apple Games Evangelists that would help. They were essentially developer relations. And they did have a dedicated department for game development. Like back then they came out with a thing called Sprockets. And that was basically game APIs that were made for the Mac.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:12:17.189) No.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:12:42.581) Whether Bungie, yeah, whether Bungie was instrumental in that, mean, you know, you can say that.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:12:42.661) By the time they were.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:12:47.813) By the time they were demoing Halo, which was after a couple of other bunch of games and stuff like, they, on the Mac, was already, we were into kind of like the iMac era where everything had moved to PC gaming, like, and consoles and nobody was gaming on a Mac. And there was, this wasn\u2019t going to save it. And it was a complete, Halo was a completely different game. It\u2019s this big open world, like multiplayer thing and stuff. That was, that was the idea. it was just after that.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:13:02.668) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:13:15.887) that Microsoft threw a ton of money at Bungie and bought them and said, we want you to make Halo for the Xbox, which to be an Xbox launch title before the Xbox came out. It\u2019s like you have a year to make this an Xbox game. And they really changed the game a lot to make it fit on the Xbox and to make it a different game with more story and less, you know, not this big open world things. So a huge change. But that was<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:13:33.089) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:13:44.293) That was the shooter that they made before Halo and it was widely regarded to be great and nobody really played it because it was only on a Mac.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:13:52.834) Right. Okay.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:13:52.919) Yeah. So, I have some very fond memories of Marathon because at that time I was working at Mac User Magazine and Mac User Magazine\u2019s offices were located in Foster City and it\u2019s in a tower right off the freeway and it has a great view. And what we used to do is we used to check and see what traffic was like at the end of the day. And if it was backed up,<\/p>\nwe would just start playing network marathon until traffic was let go. At the time I worked with Jason Snell and we used to, five o\u2019clock came, we would check traffic and then like the hallways and the offices of Mac user would be filled with yells and laughter and grunts and screams, because we were playing marathon on the network. And it was a lot of fun. So, marathon is actually making a comeback for<\/p>\nthey\u2019ve announced a marathon game and it\u2019s only gonna be a online PVP game. It does not include Mac development. So I think they announced it, I wanna say last year and they\u2019ve shown some kind of like, know, recorded previews, but they don\u2019t have anything like, I think it\u2019s supposed to be ready to go next year, but I\u2019m not sure how far along.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:15:19.525) And it\u2019s very much, it\u2019s very, very much not at all related to the old marathon. Like they took the name, but this is what they call it. It\u2019s what they call an extraction shooter, which I\u2019m not going to get into that because this isn\u2019t a gaming podcast, but it\u2019s just the whole art style and everything. And this story area stuff, it\u2019s, it\u2019s very different. It is not really, like if you were a big fan of marathon, the new marathon isn\u2019t<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:15:26.07) No.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:15:32.974) Please don\u2019t.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:15:46.703) like, they\u2019re bringing marathon back. It\u2019s like, no, they\u2019re bringing the marathon name back. It\u2019s a shooter. That\u2019s about all that\u2019s got it\u2019s got in common. And it\u2019s just going to be PCs and consoles.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:15:50.486) Yeah.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:15:54.67) This podcast is a marathon. Roman, rear bailbag, please.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:15:59.665) All right, so reader mailbag, we got one email. So there\u2019s been a lot of discussion about how Apple software and services involved AI. On YouTube, Ozzie Ruiz asks, do we really need AI in our life? We don\u2019t trust the experts in human skills anymore. So we can just end it off.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:16:20.526) It\u2019s a question. Yeah, I mean, sure. It\u2019s a really good question, but I don\u2019t think we, if we say no, I don\u2019t think it doesn\u2019t matter. Like it\u2019s here. It\u2019s not going anywhere. Like.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:16:22.385) Ha ha!<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:16:32.257) Right. It\u2019s kind of\u2026 Go go ahead, Jason.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:16:33.467) feel like.<\/p>\nWe, what everybody thinks of when they think about AI and hate AI is they think of the generative AI slop of the image and video generators and the text chat bots and stuff. And that\u2019s a fair question. Do we need that in our life? AI is in a million other places and used in a million other ways that we just don\u2019t, it\u2019s not part of what we think of when we talk about AI these days.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:16:44.76) Sure.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:17:03.697) But like the way that your iPhone generates sort of a 3D image out of your still image is totally AI. It\u2019s really, really cool. There\u2019s nothing, and there\u2019s nothing wrong with that. And yeah, I do think we need plenty more AI tools that are about data analysis and manipulation and not about talking to a chat bot or generating text and images out of nothing, you know.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:17:09.102) Mm-hmm.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:17:28.558) Yeah, mean, Jason\u2019s right. Liz, I will wrap this up now. If you\u2019ve gotten this far, kudos. But, you know, like the AI that we see, the front-facing AI is, yeah, chat bots and things that are wrong and images that are ridiculous. But he\u2019s right. Like AI has its place and it does great things. It\u2019s just overshadowed by this, you know, this layer of stuff that is what everybody wants to deliver.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:17:34.928) Ha ha ha.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:17:58.314) of the chatpots are the big one, but you know, generative stuff and you know, we see people use this stuff all the time now, like Disney and like Amazon, like major companies, Coca-Cola did their commercial in AI. Like that\u2019s where it\u2019s like, right, everyone hates it except for the people who are using it to cut corners and you know, save a job or whatever it is. it\u2019s, you know, it\u2019s scary, particularly as someone in someone, you know, the three of us, we work in writing.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:18:09.414) Mm.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:18:13.029) Yeah, and everybody hates it.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:18:27.694) It\u2019s not hard to say, we don\u2019t need writers anymore. We\u2019ll just plug it into AI and AI if it\u2019s wrong, we\u2019ll just get someone to fix it. So, you know, it\u2019s scary. But I agree with Jason. I do think that it has its place. And I think it\u2019s when it works well and helps you, it\u2019s pretty damn amazing.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:18:46.949) Logic has a AI stem splitter that works offline. And if you don\u2019t know what a stem splitter is, it separates out the pieces of music into multiple tracks. You feed it one track of a song and it\u2019s like, this is the drum track, this is the bass, this is the guitar, this is the vocals into separate tracks. Usually that\u2019s an online thing, there\u2019s a lot of paid services. Logic shipped a built-in one this year that works offline and it\u2019s amazing and it\u2019s super helpful and useful.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:18:56.856) Okay.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:19:14.865) perfect example of how AI can be an amazing tool without being all the AI generated music that is flooding Spotify right now. that\u2019s a completely, so two sides of a coin that are very different.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:19:24.45) Right, That too. Yeah.<\/p>\nAnd hey, if you use an AI, like on Apple podcasts, like you see like chapters, like, know, you can skip right past all this stuff. Right. Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:19:36.805) Great, if we\u2019re too lazy to make chapters, it makes chapters for you. That\u2019s helpful, that\u2019s great. Nothing wrong with that.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:19:44.832) Okay. That does it. We\u2019re done. That does it for this episode of the background podcast, episode number 963. Thank you, Jason. And thank you, Roman. We have another one of these to do, you realize, people. If you\u2019re listening to this, the one that you\u2019re hearing next week, we\u2019re going to do right after this. This is, yeah. So thank you for listening.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:19:46.961) Yeah.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:19:54.715) Thank you.<\/p>\nRoman Loyola (01:19:58.039) Thank you sir.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:20:00.603) Yes.<\/p>\nJason Cross (01:20:08.913) We\u2019re going to take a break so I can feed this cat that\u2019s staring at me from just off camera.<\/p>\nMichael Simon (01:20:11.616) Yeah, it will take a couple of minutes, but this is like three hours of podcasts recording today. So please subscribe to us. Support this service. Subscribe to the Macro Podcast and the podcast app on Spotify and YouTube on the Macworld Podcast channel or through any other podcast app, comments or questions. Contact us through Blue Sky Facebook threads, search for Macworld, look for the Blue Mouse logo, send an email to podcastatmacworld.com, comment under\u2026<\/p>\nWell, comment under this if you want to comment under a TikTok video or YouTube video, whatever. And join us in the next episode, which we\u2019ll be recording in five minutes as we talk about the latest in the world of Apple. See you next time.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n\t<\/main><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.macworld.com\/article\/3011830\/apple-software-services-2025-review-macworld-podcast.html\" class=\"button purchase\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Read More<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"Skip to content Image: Foundry It was a big year for Apple software and services. We talk about Liquid Glass, Apple Intelligence, Apple TV, and the other services and software that shaped the company\u2019s year. This is episode 963\u00a0with\u00a0Michael Simon,\u00a0Jason Cross,\u00a0 and\u00a0Roman Loyola. Watch episode 963 on YouTube Listen to episode 963 on Apple Podcasts […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":879130,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[67717,2656,104640],"tags":[],"class_list":{"0":"post-879129","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"category-macworld","8":"category-podcast","9":"category-youtube-videos"},"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/newsycanuse.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/879129","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/newsycanuse.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/newsycanuse.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/newsycanuse.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/newsycanuse.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=879129"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/newsycanuse.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/879129\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/newsycanuse.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/879130"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/newsycanuse.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=879129"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/newsycanuse.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=879129"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/newsycanuse.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=879129"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}